Wiring

jackhanow · December 04, 2015, 07:47:20 PM

All construction guys have a pile of extention cords somewhere they been meaning to fix or get rid of. Just saying

86102A3 · December 05, 2015, 02:31:47 AM

Bobwoo,
AC bonding in a conversion is dependent on your set-up. The main concern is if you have a generator or inverter that supplies power to your main panel. Your panel needs a main bonding jumper when you are using either the generator or your inverter. This is the connection between the ground bar and the neutral bar. Your panel should be bonded from the frame to your ground bar at all times. When you are connected to shore power your ground bar and neutral bar should be isolated from one another. Any metal in your conversion needs to be bonded to the ground bar of your electrical panel. As far as DC goes, as long as you have fuses on your circuits and all your metal is bonded together it will take care of any shorts.

joel_newton · December 05, 2015, 04:22:47 AM

Timely topic - just getting ready to do some rewiring. I was planning on using THHN in blue smurf and non-metalic Liquidtight conduit. BX would be great except most circuits will be a real pain to pull. One issue is concerning me. With some runs having only three conductors, there is plenty of room for them to move/vibrate. What keeps them from chaffing? I was thinking of using expanding nylon sleeveing to bundle them together inside the conduit. With Romex secured every foot movement is virtually non-existant. Especially true if you have multiple runs bundled together. Any thoughts?

I love the new switches and outlets that clamp the conductor and insulation. They are perfect for stranded conductors and eliminate most of the stress on the conductor.

And, speaking of main panel bonding. My conversion panel was incorrectly wired. A standard neutral-ground bond panel was used. Had it been plugged into an incorrectly wired outlet (without GFI) the skin would have been "hot." Don't think that can happen? I found multiple outlets in our rental units which had neutral and hot reversed. Glad I didn't decide to park the bus there and plug it in for some lights! Popping the GFI when plugging into my 50A outlet at home was a clue something was wrong.

NEC Article 551 RV is the bible.

Scott & Heather · December 05, 2015, 05:17:52 PM

We have full timed almost 5 years using 12 ga Romex solid core. No issues. FYI, people it doesn't vibrate. Tack it down, make sure your connections are tight and you're good. That being said, it was a major pain to get wired and into light switch boxes etc. greatest fire risk for me is wire nuts jammed into small boxes and loosish connections as a result.

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jackhanow · December 05, 2015, 08:05:18 PM

Instead of wire nuts , you could crimp and solder the wires together using copper tubing. Then insulate then with the real heavy duty black tape. The rubbery kind not the vinyl stuff. It would take a while longer but would last forever. Probably would help to roughen the wire a little before soldering and by a real good crimping tool.

Scott & Heather · December 06, 2015, 02:52:52 AM

That would actually be a much cleaner way. I should experiment with that method

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luvrbus · December 06, 2015, 03:06:52 AM

It is a lot easier to use the crimp snap type you crimp the connector (copper) and the cap snap on then it looks like a wing nut easy to fit in a box and the connection is permanent or use what is called the closed end crimp connector JMO I don't care for wire nuts and tape

eagle19952 · December 06, 2015, 05:12:50 AM

soldering (properly) is not as easy as some would have you believe ....

and the consequences equally disturbing. if it was simple, crimping would not be an option...

joel_newton · December 06, 2015, 05:31:28 AM

I have used both the closed end connectors and Buchannan crimp connectors for years. Used with the appropiate crimper specified by the manufacturer they are excellent. They are especially well suited for stranded wire.

Think I'm going to go the Romex route for interior runs. If this were a new conversion with open walls, conduit would be my choice. Liquidtight conduit will still be used for under the floor, weather exposed locations.

jackhanow · December 06, 2015, 06:08:02 PM

They crimp and solder most gang connections on cars and trucks and put a few layers of cloth tape on them all the time using narrow copper crimps. Now they fuse the connections with some kind of sonic pressure welder and wrap in heat shrink with glue. I also wanted to add that split loom is pretty nice and a lot easier to install than conduit. They have been using it in cars for 20 plus years and works the same as conduit. I need to run a new circuit and it would be easier if it was split loom not conduit. I think as long as you don't let the solid wire flex it won't break. I don't think the copper wire today is as brittle as before, I'm pretty sure it's an alloy type copper now. Besides the fact that if your bus was flexing the wiring enough to break it, my guess is the wire is not the only thing that is broken.

Seangie · December 09, 2015, 04:44:56 AM

Quote from: 86102A3 on December 05, 2015, 02:31:47 AM
Bobwoo,
AC bonding in a conversion is dependent on your set-up. The main concern is if you have a generator or inverter that supplies power to your main panel. Your panel needs a main bonding jumper when you are using either the generator or your inverter. This is the connection between the ground bar and the neutral bar. Your panel should be bonded from the frame to your ground bar at all times. When you are connected to shore power your ground bar and neutral bar should be isolated from one another. Any metal in your conversion needs to be bonded to the ground bar of your electrical panel. As far as DC goes, as long as you have fuses on your circuits and all your metal is bonded together it will take care of any shorts.

Im assumin you are talking about bonding your ground and neutral. You have to be very careful with this.

I belive the proper practice is that It should be bonded at the generator or inverter. Most Marine/RV generators or inverters allow for this.

The problem arises when you go to hook up your bus to an RV park pedastal. Because the ground/neutral is bonded on the parks source side it creates a situation where the bonded neutral and ground in your panel creates a ground that is now hot!

It can be dangerous for you and whoever needs to work on the electrical from the other end. It can also create a "hot skin" condition where the metal on your rig is now hot and you can get electrocuted by touching it.

Best practice is to bond ground and neutral at the source (generator or inverter) not at the panel.

-Sean

86102A3 · December 12, 2015, 01:53:10 AM

Sean, yes that is a part of what I was talking about.
Yes you do want to bond at the generator and inverter, but you need to make sure that you have some way of disconnecting from from the bonded point when you are connected to the park source. Some folks keep it simple by just using their shore power cord and plugging it in to the generator or the park pedestal. You can also use a automatic transfer switch, but you will need to make sure that you are switching the 2 hots and the neutral. This will disconnect you from the neutral to ground bond at the generator when you are using the park source. It will be the same situation for your inverter.

It is equally important that your panel ground is attached to the bus frame and or any metal parts in the bus. This ensures that the over current protection (breakers) will work in the event that a hot wire touches any of the metal parts of your bus. This will also eliminate the possibility of the skin being hot.

Dave5Cs · December 12, 2015, 07:30:08 AM

Tom LVMCI, so now I have to hire an electronic engineer to ride along with us. What next? and will he fit in a bay for storage?

We have Romex for AC and DC is stranded 12. I still have more to redo from PO who would just cut it wherever and take off. I had 1 i found on the DC side and it was 4 feet long with 16 connections and different colors?

??

Dave5Cs

lvmci · December 12, 2015, 10:05:19 AM

Hi Dave, Sean will tell you about how different video engineers are, it would be better to buy him a 24 pack of beer and ask him to fix it before you leave, tom...

Seangie · December 12, 2015, 03:36:46 PM

Quote from: lvmci on December 12, 2015, 10:05:19 AM
Hi Dave, Sean will tell you about how different video engineers are, it would be better to buy him a 24 pack of beer and ask him to fix it before you leave, tom...

Video Engineers? Don't get me started

How about the video guy calling cameras cause the camera caller didn't show up. Hahaha...