In tank fuel warming?

Darkspeed · November 20, 2015, 03:18:56 AM

I was looking at a diesel tank that had one of these installed.

Is there any need for it in a bus? or is it an ice road trucker thing...

http://www.arctic-fox.com/fuel-fluid-warming-products/in-tank-fuel-warming

eagle19952 · November 20, 2015, 03:29:57 AM

might be interesting in holding tanks...potable or otherwise...

TomC · November 20, 2015, 05:00:53 AM

If you're going to be in sub-zero weather for any length of time, it is suggested. I had a simple Arctic-Fox (coolant loop) through my main fuel tank and my water tank. Anytime my generator was running (Onan 6.5 Emerald commercial gasoline) I had the block heater (1500 watts) on to give the generator a constant load (as a result, my 1st gasoline gen lasted 12,000hrs). With the block heater on, I also had a 120v coolant motor pump to circulate the coolant through the block, water tank, and fuel tank. Kept the water tank from freezing since it was a 75 gal fuel tank on the side of the truck. I learned how to keep the water line from freezing from the tank to the sleeper by using a piece of cardboard to vent the hot generator cooling air over to the water tank. The coldest I had been in is -5 in twin cities Mn. Good Luck, TomC

luvrbus · November 20, 2015, 07:20:18 AM

With that gizzmo what do you do about the filters that is where they freeze,I think the Davco filter with the 120V overnight heater and a 12 or 24 volt or the filter heated by the engine water would be the best bet.

I have had fuel gel driving down the road in Wy always at the filter

Jim Eh. · November 20, 2015, 05:56:16 PM

If you plan on driving in sub zero weather just make sure you do NOT use #2 fuel. Costs a bit more for #1 but probably cheaper than a tow, some melt down time inside a warm shop, swapping out the filters, pumping out the #2 fuel that is in the tank......

Oonrahnjay · November 21, 2015, 02:41:13 AM

Quote from: krank on November 20, 2015, 05:56:16 PMIf you plan on driving in sub zero weather just make sure you do NOT use #2 fuel. Costs a bit more for #1 but probably cheaper than a tow, some melt down time inside a warm shop, swapping out the filters, pumping out the #2 fuel that is in the tank......

I realize that all y'all up there in the Great White North drive on frozen lakes for 11 months out of the year, eat moose steaks, and never have temps that don't have a - in front of them, but down here what they call #2 fuel is "winterized" to a climatically-scheduled temperature profile; it usually works OK but circumstances can defeat the system. A lot of places sell kerosene as "#1" with the intention of allowing people to blend the kerosene with summer fuel (like if a farmer had a hundred gallons of fuel in a tank at the end of November, he could dump in 20 gallons of "#1") and make home-brewed winter fuel. The kick is that some people call winterized fuel "#1" when it really is regular #2 with kerosene in it. So if somebody is selling what they're calling #1, you have to be really sure exactly what they mean.
In my TDI, I prefer fuel that's been winterized by using anti-gel that's not kerosene (it runs better, gets better mileage, starts better, is easier on the fuel system - plus you'll probably have some pretty good anti-water stuff in it too; it's a real kick in the yoonowhere to have fuel that's not gelled but the filters clogged with water-ice crystals) but that's personal preference. And somebody can always add store-bought anti-gel (Lucas, Howes, Diesel-Kleen white bottle) if it's needed.
But you're sure right about an gelled fuel incident ruining your day. Do what you gotta do -- that's the important thing.

TomC · November 21, 2015, 03:23:26 AM

I simply use Diesel Service additive. I know it works since I've started the truck in as cold as -20. If you're fuel filters are near the radiator hot air, you shouldn't have freezing issues. Good Luck, TomC

Oonrahnjay · November 21, 2015, 07:32:33 AM

I don't know how much difference it makes on large tanks (like a bus) but the heating effect of excess fuel being returned to the tank makes a big difference on a TDI. Of course, if it's really, really polar cold or if the car has set outside for days in very cold temps and the fuel isn't properly treated, you can find yourself in big trouble, but it's a good factor in preventing gelling.

MB LeMirage · November 21, 2015, 02:04:56 PM

I run a fleet of 10 Freightliner Cascadias and 2 Kenworth T800s and we are parked outside every day with temps down to -35 to -40 Celcius. The things we do are to keep a consistant supplier of fuel, no station jumping, and to use fuel conditioner. I have not had a frozen fuel service call in 3 years. The conditioner is both a water seperator and an anti gel and is used at 1 bottle per fill, one half into each tank.
Ryan.

Tom Y · November 22, 2015, 09:57:51 AM

Before putting coolant in my tank I would use 1 of these on a return fuel line.

MB LeMirage · November 22, 2015, 01:56:23 PM

I agree with Tom Y, the idea of the coolant heater being used inside the fuel tank seems like a plan for disaster later. The external one used on a return line would be better, but if used on the return line, you could still freeze up the supply line. Over the counter fuel conditioner is cheap insurance, imo.
Ryan.

TomC · November 23, 2015, 02:59:05 AM

If you're going to be Mr Ice Trucker, then there are numerous coolant run warming devices. Fuel lines that have an outer hose with coolant running through. Arctic Fox tank heaters. Return line heaters (but usually the fuel is warm anyway once it goes through the engine), blankets for the fuel filters, blankets for the fuel tanks, etc.
If you just use Diesel Power Service fuel conditioner, then you're usually good. I have been down to -20, how much colder than that are you in?

DKO · November 23, 2015, 04:14:04 PM

Rural King (kind of like TSC and Atwood's) has two brands on a good sale this week. I bought enough to get me through winter. Their regular price is already good compared to others. I have paid nearly twice this amount at truck stops and auto parts houses.

Davy

MB LeMirage · November 23, 2015, 05:34:46 PM

We usually use the white Kleen-Flo on the top shelf in your picture. They also make a red bottle called Diesel 911 for if you do freeze up. Just pour it in and wait 15-30 min and your good to go. I've had it in our parts room for 3 years and as long as my guys remember to use the white bottles, no one has ever needed the red.

Oonrahnjay · November 24, 2015, 12:34:40 AM

Quote from: MB LeMirage on November 23, 2015, 05:34:46 PMWe usually use the white Kleen-Flo on the top shelf in your picture. They also make a red bottle called Diesel 911 for if you do freeze up. Just pour it in and wait 15-30 min and your good to go. I've had it in our parts room for 3 years and as long as my guys remember to use the white bottles, no one has ever needed the red.

In my part of NC, we rarely get to even single-digits Fahrenheit (i.e. not colder than about -10 C) -- I know that that's nothing for you in the northern climes. I use the silver-bottle Diesel Kleen about 10 months out of the year and the white-bottle occasionally in the winter (I am away from my TDI for about 6 weeks in the coldest weather). Even with our mild climate, the diesel is "treated" at the pump (mostly mixed with kerosene, although some retailers advertise "advanced chemical anti-gel treatment" -- which is probably just cheap kerosene anyway). I've never had any problems. I occasionally drive north in the winter, I always use the white-bottle Kleen-Flo mixed into the NC-bought fuel. In our climate, we have lots of condensation in fuel tanks - the white bottle helps remove water from fuel; while I think we'd get more problems with ice crystals than genuine fuel gelling, water in the fuel is a genuine concern for diesel vehicles anywhere it's cold.
There's the issue of moving from one location to another. If you fill up with fuel in Miami and drive to the Adirondacks in early February (or fill in San Diego and drive to Aspen), you will probably run into gelling problems - or ice problems.