Newbie looking at RTS conversion

[kjurkic]

Hello all

Longtime lurker, finally signed up.

I know there is an RTS dedicated group at Yahoo, but I find it difficult to follow threads due to bad design by Yahoo.

I have been considering some form of conversion RV for years now, and have been back & forth between a skoolie, coach or transit. What has me serious now is that I have found a possible project in a '93 RTS. This led to many hours researching the DD 50s and Allison v73x transmissions. I see posts here about DDEC but they are a bit scattered. If I did go ahead and purchase I would immediately get a data cable and some software to pull codes and monitor the engine. It is my understanding the bus likely has DDEC III. Also aware that the RTS is unlikely to have good highway gears, but our local environment (I live on Vancouver Island, BC) is mostly 55mph(90kph) anyway.

Well aware that RTS lacks basement storage, but our first RV will be more a weekender than a full-timer. For the first while it might actually earn its keep as an over-sized tradesman van, as I own a couple of properties and have some reno projects in the works . Heck, I may even put it to work for a season for charters, just to earn back some of the purchase price.

My questions:
*Is there a good source other than  :Pbay for data cable and DDEC reading software for laptop?
*Does anyone know if things like brake drums and other running gear components are shared with other buses and easy to find, or are they RTS specific?
*I see most folks build their own washrooms/showers/lavs, but I am curious if there is a pre-fab all-in-one perhaps made out of fibreglass or melamine for easy cleaning and no leakage?
  -I have seen modules intended for low-income or disaster/emergency shelters, but have not seen a stand-alone unit.
* If the DD 50 dies, how realistic is a 7.3 PSD swap to the Allison?
  -I currently drive a 35' F550 that carries 24 passengers and all their luggage for 3-6 week visits (long story). That bus is GVW at 20,000lbs and I have no trouble up steep grades and even get decent fuel economy. The beauty of the 7.3 is "dime a dozen" in my area. Also it can run 2500rpm all day, so wouldn't need to find the unicorn 4:10 gears.

Sorry to go on and on, but I will be making a long trip next week to see the RTS, and want to be sure I don't end up with buyers remorse if anything goes sideways.

cheers all
Ken

[dbldragon]

 Hi Ken  I also live on the island . What part are you from ,we live in Yellow point (Nanaimo) . Our mci has a series 50 in it and after I got it to the island I took it to Cullan and they hooked it up and looked for codes, hours and such for free. Good luck with the trip to see the bus .
Not sure what a long trip is for you but we got our bus from northwest bus sales in Federal way Wash.It may be worth a look if you are going that way.

  Chuck

[Lostranger]

Hello Ken,

As near as I can tell, the RTS is a good design in a nice-looking package. I've seen some fine conversions. I can confirm that 4.10 ring and pinion sets are scarce.

This is not the most transit friendly forum, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a vast source of help and information. I'm not aware of any RTS converters here, but I imagine just making that statement will bring someone out.

You don't need me to point out that the lovely, round upper-body corners take away much cabinet space. One of the joys of my Gillig H2000LF is high ceilings with square corners. I'm not aware of anyone making a fiberglass bathroom pod for that body, but I've never looked. If I wanted one, I would build it from 3/8" or 1/2" plywood and fiberglass it myself. I'm doing just that for the shower walls in the Gillig except with 3/4" plywood since I'm using frameless walls.

This forum is 2 stroke centric. Actually, it's mechanical 2 stroke centric. I keep reading and hearing about a love of the sound and how you can limp one home with a dead cylinder and the like. Before I got the Gillig, I invoked negative response by just asking about the DD S-50. Everyone I know who actually has one loves it. Part of the key to being happy with that engine appears to be timely balance shaft replacement, and I seem to recall that it's a 300K item.

I know nothing about sources for cables and software or about the feasibility of swapping a Power Stroke. The fact that "normal" engines rotate clockwise and vee drive requires counterclockwise rotation might present a problem. I imagine that brake parts are readily available. Some brake/driveline parts were common to the Flxible 870/Metro.

I'm surprised that someone hasn't already suggested that you forget the RTS and buy a 40 to 60-year-old coach that's already converted because prices are down. I will not give such advice. I would rather build what I want from the start. If you like the RTS platform, if you can buy it for a price you like, if you do not find major mechanical red flags, if you have appropriate skills and tools, if you have a lot of time and some money to devote to the project, then....

Worst case is that you end up with a pretty good tool shed or shop.

Best of luck,

Jim

[luvrbus]

The RTS is a good bus yours is all right handed the 730 changes the direction for rear gears my friend Geoff has one converted very nice conversion he has had for years.

Unless you are computer savvy the Pro/Link with the DDEC cartage is easier for me than the DD diagnostic disk on a lap top to navigate but you can buy the disk on Ebay from off shore dealers the cables get a little pricey.

A lot of sources around for parts for a RTS we just removed a series 50 and transmission from a RTS for a 4104 implant the rest went to be recycled what shame all the SS to a junk yard        

[Timkar]

*Is there a good source other than  :Pbay for data cable and DDEC reading software for laptop?

This is where I got mine...http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/?q=node/6

HTH...Tim

[luvrbus]

SilverLeaf just reads I thought he wanted the diagnostic software for a DDEC with the Pro/Link you can do so much more than just read like locating a bad injector,if he wants to monitor SilverLeaf is the way to go

.You started on the series 60 transplant yet Tim I hear the cowboy is headed your way with the motor mounts

[Bill Gerrie]

Ken
Check to see if the RTS is allowed into BC. It is NOT allowed into ON as GM didn't apply for the certification or something like that. You wouldn't want to buy it and not be able to bring it home. 

[kjurkic]

WOW thanks everyone!

dbldragon:
I currently live in Port Alberni, but was a Nanaimo resident for 2 years in the Harewood VIU area. Still own the house as I was able to get good tenants in there.

Bill:
The RTS is already in BC and registered; there was a small batch purchased by BC Transit for airport duty - a charter operator I met has a few in his fleet and is starting to retire them. I had read somewhere a while back that RTS's were never in Canada, but there is a bus fans forum (kinda like trainspotters - the hobby not the movie  ) and a retired manager recalled the sale to BC

Jim:
I have been following your transit build - yes the square corners would definitely make the millwork a lot easier, but as my history with fixer-upper houses can attest, I am a masochist Wifey will not accept anything that can't be parked out front of the house without embarrassment - another reason to go transit or coach rather than skoolie.

For the DDEC software - I would love to have the Pro/link full kit, but from what I have found so far, I would need to pony up over $2,000 so the Silverleaf kit will be next on the list if I buy the bus. At least with that kit, I can build in a PC at the dash and monitor all the parameters while traveling.

As to the 730, from what I have read here and other places, with the series 50 they went to normal rotation.

Thanks again everyone and I welcome any input!

Cheers
Ken

[RJ]

Ken -

The fact that this RTS is already in BC and registered is a huge obstacle that's already been overcome - a good thing!

The S-50 is a good engine - shakes a LOT while idling, but smooths out once it's over about 1,000 rpm.  It is also a RH engine, as opposed to the common LH engines found in V-drive units.  Since it's a 4-stroke, it doesn't produce the heat that the 2-strokes do, which helps tremendously with the engine cooling requirements.  Unfortunately, that also takes away from it's ability to heat the cabin, but that's usually compensated for by having a Webasto unit in the system somewhere.

The transmission will be a V-731R or V-731RH, you'd have to look on the serial number plate riveted to the side of the transmission case to verify.  It is essentially a stock V-730, but with a set of gears inside the bell-housing to reverse the engine's rotation.

As Clifford mentioned earlier, Geoff has a gorgeous RTS conversion that easily shows what can be done with a transit, perhaps he'll chime in here with words of wisdom from an owner who's done it from scratch.

Don't be afraid to ask questions - there are some real characters here, but the goal is all the same: enjoy the big toy!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[luvrbus]

I thought all the Nova and TMC built RTS buses could be imported into Canada ?

[TomC]

I have an AMGeneral transit, which is more like the new look GMC or Flx's. But like yours, it does have about 22" of under floor space to put most everything in. If you have the 40ft'r, you'll be able to create about a 5-6ft under storage behind the front axle that goes the entire width of the bus. Except for bikes- chairs, tents, BBQ, extra filters, extra oil, etc fits just fine. Besides the standard 130gal fuel tank, I had enough space underneath for 85gal gray tank, 45gal black tank, 20gal propane tank, 2-8D house batteries. I have the 10kw Diesel gen mounted next to the driver's seat like a front engine. Geoff mounted his up in the rear where the A/C was.
Most all the mechanicals are the same on all the transits. Also, I even saw one that the guy added an extra 5ft section (the bus is made in 5ft sections) to make a 45ft'r. VERY long wheelbase. Good Luck, TomC

[Lostranger]

I was glad to learn in this thread that the latter vee drives were R/H. I would still be more inclined to rebuild or replace the S-50 than swap anything else. Swaps are always more expensive, complicated and time consuming than you think they're going to be. Apparently, the price of scrap is low these days, and I keep hearing of complete transits with good 50s for a grand. Not actually seen any of these, but the rumors are persistent.

Jim