Tesla gallery wall for the home. Maybe coach????

Chaz · May 02, 2015, 07:18:06 AM

With having to be shackled at home with my eye issue, I tend to listen to TV (can't really watch real easily) and I heard about Elon Musk's new "battery wall" for the home.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4209384375001/tesla-unveils-latest-battery-pack-technology-powerwall/?#sp=show-clips
I haven't looked into it but it sounds like it could be something that can make our lives a little better. It might be a bit on the "salty" side right now but they say they will be coming down as Elon has opened his patents for anyone to use.
I'd be interested in you guys take who are electrical guru's.
My batteries need serviced again right now and it would be sooooooooo nice to have a cleaner simpler system.
Have a great weekend! It's supposed to be beautiful her!
Chaz

Chaz · May 02, 2015, 07:21:40 AM

Dang spell check!!!!!!!!!!! ( plus iPad doesn't work well with one eye.)
it's supposed to be "Battery Wall" in the headline!!!!!! GGgggrrrrrrrrr.....

eagle19952 · May 02, 2015, 07:27:42 AM

$3500 for 10 kwh for 10 hours at 3' x 4' x 7" isn't in my budget..yet

Jeremy · May 02, 2015, 07:39:38 AM

This is the thing that you can theoretically build yourself that I was referring to in the 'Thoughts on batteries' thread. Although I'm not sure how you'd handle the battery-management electronics side on a high voltage pack for home use - easy at low voltages though (eg my 48v bike or a 24v bus) because they're all available off-the-shelf

Jeremy

Chaz · May 02, 2015, 10:15:48 AM

Is that expensive kWh?

?? I don't know. But my guess is it would be more convenient and possibly last longer?
I'm told that teslas battery technology is cutting edge and revolutionary. (I hope so.)

bevans6 · May 03, 2015, 04:17:04 AM

Tesla's batteries are lithium ion. So far, no cutting edge tech except for the manufacturing process. He is going for scale, building the largest battery manufacturing factory in the world, hence driving down costs. Other battery chemistry is being developed, including something called "aluminum-air" which promises far longer life. But I think the whole solar thing is on a cusp. Musk is Chairman of a company his brother founded which basically installs the systems and charges the customer for the power. Just like "the grid" except off the grid, no up-front cap-ex for the consumer, just forever bills at a presumably lower rate.

In the course of reading about this today I found this: http://enphase.com/microinverters/ Replaces all of the charge controllers, etc, with very small point-of -supply inverters. The solar panels put out 240 VAC. No idea what they do when it's dark, I didn't read that far.

Brian

technomadia · May 03, 2015, 02:54:15 PM

We've been running a lithium ion battery bank since 2011 (more info: www.technomadia.com/lithium).

We did a post about the Tesla announcement on Friday that goes over why it's not overly ideal for RV use yet.. but sure is cool! Post: http://www.technomadia.com/2015/05/teslas-lithium-powerwall-awesome-but-not-for-rvs/

Jeremy · May 03, 2015, 03:44:10 PM

Quote from: Chaz on May 02, 2015, 10:15:48 AM
I'm told that teslas battery technology is cutting edge and revolutionary. (I hope so.)

No technology sold to the general public is ever really 'cutting edge and revolutionary' - by definition it has to be almost the complete opposite, mature and evolved (ie. totally robust and tried-and-tested) in order to be as near fool / lawyer-proof as possible. But no question that there are revolutions taking place in battery technology at the moment - every few weeks there are articles in the press about new cell chemistries being developed, some of which are bound to appear in consumer goods in due course

Jeremy

Dave5Cs · May 03, 2015, 06:12:45 PM

If the military and government hasn't designed, made or developed it for use it isn't all that good and if it is we the people won't hear about it until there is something else better in 10 to 20 years. Then it will be outdated anyway. Your tax dollars at work.

TedCalvert · May 03, 2015, 06:48:39 PM

Jeremy--

48V bike? Please tell us more!

Jeremy · May 04, 2015, 01:34:58 AM

Quote from: TedCalvert on May 03, 2015, 06:48:39 PM
Jeremy--

48V bike? Please tell us more!

I've just bought a electric conversion kit for my mountain bike - if you look about halfway down this thread there's a description of which kit I chose after someone else asked about it as well. I've literally only got it this week so it's not running yet

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=29041.0

Jeremy

Chaz · May 06, 2015, 10:13:34 AM

Some more I found on the Tesla Wall:
http://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesignArticles/ArticleID/10057/Teslas-Powerwall-by-the-Numbers.aspx

Iceni John · May 06, 2015, 07:51:10 PM

And another really informative article: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/46756-Elon-I-love-you-but-the-PowerWall-isn-t-that-great-yet?p=994934&viewfull=1#post994934
In other words, it's maybe not quite what Mr.Musk is letting us believe.

Caveat emptor.

John

Lee Bradley · May 07, 2015, 09:17:44 AM

What does 10 KW work out to in amp/hrs?

bevans6 · May 07, 2015, 10:20:00 AM

The ten KW wall is actually a 10Kilo Watt Hour wall, have to be careful of what they are actually saying. Which isn't enough to make a serious determination of what the heck they are advertising. 10 kilo watt hours is obviously some number of amp hours depending on voltage, around 800 AH on a typical 12 volt battery bank. But then you have to figure out your efficiency - their batteries they say are around 95% efficient at getting the wattage out of the panel and into the battery. Then you have to add in an inverter - not included. That will have around an 90 % efficiency at best, so you are looking a system efficiency of 90% of 95%, or around 85%. Then you need to figure your depth of discharge. 10 KWH is probably the batteries ultimate discharge level, the same way a 20 hour AH rating is. If you use 80% depth of discharge, you can expect to pull 6800 watt-hours out of it, which is fine. But as one of the articles I read (no idea which one) pointed out, that will kill the battery bank after around 500 cycles. Or less than two years.

In other words, for people like us who obsess over this stuff because we spend money on it and depend on it working, this is a lot of same-old same-old. To a bunch of wall street guys who know less about batteries and electricity that we can imagine, this is a great power story, marketing magic, going to pay for a bunch of that new factory. And for us, drive down prices at the end of the day, which I see as the three to five year timeframe at the earliest.