24V Inverter

Oonrahnjay · February 19, 2015, 12:14:01 PM

Quote from: bevans6 on February 19, 2015, 06:42:10 AM
Tikvah, I had one of those (or a clone, they sell through a number of different brands) and it burnt out it's output section when my air conditioner started once. Totally ruined, could not be repaired, was a couple of weeks out of warranty and the factory said we'll give you 10% off on a new one. Mind you, they gave everyone 10% off on a new one.

I personally wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole, but that's just me and my experience. It's also why it took me close to a year to finally commit to a new Magnum. I was scared silly I was wasting another very large chunk of change.

Brian

I was wondering about that. When everyone with a good reputation offers a 2500W unit for $2300 and somebody else offers a 4000W unit for under $1000 (less 10% of course), you gotta wonder what's "too good to be true" here.

Tikvah · February 19, 2015, 12:28:49 PM

QuoteTikvah, I had one of those (or a clone, they sell through a number of different brands) and it burnt out it's output section when my air conditioner started once. Totally ruined, could not be repaired, was a couple of weeks out of warranty and the factory said we'll give you 10% off on a new one. Mind you, they gave everyone 10% off on a new one.

I personally wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole, but that's just me and my experience. It's also why it took me close to a year to finally commit to a new Magnum. I was scared silly I was wasting another very large chunk of change.

Brian

Well, I'm glad to hear the warnings about this unit. However, a little disappointed. I've had my eye on this for over a year, hoping to have enough free coins to buy it. But, doubling my money for a better unit makes the purchase almost out of reach. I don't need fancy, but I'm tired of my Modified Wave unit. Just too many things in my coach that don't like it. So, I keep scouring the internet for a pure sine wave that is affordable.
I don't need all the fancy stuff you guys talk about above... I don't even understand most of it. I have a finger - I can start my own generator

I guess it's back to the drawing board for me.

Dave

bevans6 · February 19, 2015, 12:50:14 PM

My unit was actually a Samlex. Cotek, Go-power, Aims, etc all seem to be made by the same company. They are engineered in Vancouver, I spoke to them several times both before I bought and sadly after mine failed. At first I was happy to be dealing with a "Canadian" company, then not so much.

The failure mode that mine suffered was a little odd, to be honest.. I used an automatic transfer switch to switch between inverter and external power. I had the inverter turned on, the 15Kbtw AC was on, and the external power failed (blew a breaker). When the ATS switched the load to the inverter, the AC had that blip of loss of power and the compressor must have surged the load current. Anyway, all the output MosFet's blew in a cascade on one side of the unit (it's really two 2Kwatt units in parallel internally), and the input fuses all blew as well. The design has no over-current protection on the output at all. I called the head office in Vancouver, they said they do not repair units, just exchange them for new if still under warranty. If it's out of warranty, tough luck.

Brian

Tikvah · February 19, 2015, 12:55:45 PM

QuoteMy unit was actually a Samlex. Cotek, Go-power, Aims, etc all seem to be made by the same company. They are engineered in Vancouver, I spoke to them several times both before I bought and sadly after mine failed. At first I was happy to be dealing with a "Canadian" company, then not so much.

The failure mode that mine suffered was a little odd, to be honest.. I used an automatic transfer switch to switch between inverter and external power. I had the inverter turned on, the 15Kbtw AC was on, and the external power failed (blew a breaker). When the ATS switched the load to the inverter, the AC had that blip of loss of power and the compressor must have surged the load current. Anyway, all the output MosFet's blew in a cascade on one side of the unit (it's really two 2Kwatt units in parallel internally), and the input fuses all blew as well. The design has no over-current protection on the output at all. I called the head office in Vancouver, they said they do not repair units, just exchange them for new if still under warranty. If it's out of warranty, tough luck.

Oddly, that sounds a bit encouraging. At least the problem was caused by something a bit unusual. I switch power manually (unplug one supply, and plug in another) and I always power down large loads first. So the problem you describe wouldn't happen.
Maybe I'll roll the dice yet

Oonrahnjay · February 19, 2015, 12:59:15 PM

Quote from: digesterman on February 19, 2015, 10:18:02 AMAccording to Outback they have the systems that do indeed have the load sharing features.
Pure sine wave only way to go, have used both for many many years and PS is so far superior and the cost has came down so much it would really be foolish not to go that route. To each his own tho

Yes, I will not waste my money on anything that does not have full features, good capacity (and the "Mobile" Outback has only 2500W for the 24V inverter and a "vented" model that has 3500W but they don't state if the vented one has "power pass through"), good controls, and a good warranty with support and a good name -- AND pure sine wave. It would sure be good to keep my "Mate" controller for an Outback 24V model though. And I like Outback's control system.
It looks like it's easy to compare Outback and Magnum but throw in outliers like Cotek and Victron and it becomes hard to make heads or tails of what's available. Nothing is easy, is it?

bevans6 · February 19, 2015, 01:05:54 PM

You know what, for under $1K I would probably take the risk too. When I bought my Magnum, a large part of the decision was the charger capability. they hadn't added charging to the Samlex etc at that time.

Brian

Dave5Cs · February 19, 2015, 07:51:16 PM

Ok sorry Bruce
was away working and hadn't read this yet. As RJ said I have the MSH-M series 4024 Hybrid Inverter charger with the 120 Amp charger. I also bought the ME-BMK battery monitor comes with twisted pair wire plus Negative 300amp Shunt and I had the 400Amp Breaker already for the Positive. And the ME-ARC digital remote comes with connecting telephone wire 30 feet. The remote monitors the batteries through the BMK and the whole system through the inverter charger with readouts on everything. Easy to use.
If I was on a pole that was only a 30Amp hookup and had the A/C on and turned on the other rear A/C the inverter picks up the rest of the power or coffe pot etc up to the 4000W figure and above if it needs a quick shot of energy to 5600Watts Peak. I didn't buy the auto gen start but can add it at any time.
Like Jon I believe in self starting etc. The charger works so fast that i have set the charger to start if and only if it can read incoming of at least 15 amps up to 100 Amps. I also can set the battery cut in and cut out low and high. so if it goes below a certain charged state the inverter will shut down unless there is 15 amps or more and then it will kick in and charge them up. You can also set up a percentage to start charging like Mine is at 30 % down it charges it back up. It really is the ultimate in inverters.
Most like Magnum, Outback, Trace, Xantrex are all owned by the same company now. Magnum has 2 repair facilities but the main one is in Oregon. They also repair Freedoms which is now Xantrex.

HTH Dave

niles500 · February 19, 2015, 09:15:22 PM

Brian - I have dual Magnums, not a "true" 240, but then neither were my Vanners, they still work the same - FWIW

Oonrahnjay · February 20, 2015, 02:52:38 AM

Quote from: Dave5Cs on February 19, 2015, 07:51:16 PM
Ok sorry Bruce
was away working and hadn't read this yet. As RJ said I have the MSH-M series 4024 Hybrid Inverter charger with the 120 Amp charger. I also bought the ME-BMK battery monitor comes with twisted pair wire plus Negative 300amp Shunt and I had the 400Amp Breaker already for the Positive. And the ME-ARC digital remote comes with connecting telephone wire 30 feet. The remote monitors the batteries through the BMK and the whole system through the inverter charger with readouts on everything. Easy to use.
If I was on a pole that was only a 30Amp hookup and had the A/C on and turned on the other rear A/C the inverter picks up the rest of the power or coffe pot etc up to the 4000W figure and above if it needs a quick shot of energy to 5600Watts Peak. I didn't buy the auto gen start but can add it at any time.
Like Jon I believe in self starting etc. The charger works so fast that i have set the charger to start if and only if it can read incoming of at least 15 amps up to 100 Amps. I also can set the battery cut in and cut out low and high. so if it goes below a certain charged state the inverter will shut down unless there is 15 amps or more and then it will kick in and charge them up. You can also set up a percentage to start charging like Mine is at 30 % down it charges it back up. It really is the ultimate in inverters.
Most like Magnum, Outback, Trace, Xantrex are all owned by the same company now. Magnum has 2 repair facilities but the main one is in Oregon. They also repair Freedoms which is now Xantrex.

HTH Dave

Thanks, Dave. Appreciate the helpful answer.

Debo · February 20, 2015, 03:15:01 AM

I have the MSH-M 4024 Hybrid exactly Like Dave, and it works great. The hybrid functionality has already saved my bacon a couple of times where only a 15 amp circuit was available. I think I paid $1700 for mine, so it's one of the most expensive components of the coach, but it's also the heart of my electrical system so I bit the bullet. I can create shortcuts for things as good as the next guy, but for this application there aren't really any shortcuts. If you're nervous about laying down that much cash, I was too. Mine has been installed for almost a year now, and I have to say it's been worth every penny.

Jon · February 20, 2015, 03:25:30 AM

I think the heart of a decision regarding the electrical system is centered around convenience. We don't need inverters. Any coach can be designed with minimal 120VAC devices, and have most of the coach electrical system DC power. The coach can be set up for shore or generator power, and can use converters to supply DC power or to charge the batteries.

But if the coach is set up with inverters and a good transfer switch it can be almost 100% automatic, not because it makes our life easier, but because our wives never have to try to figure out what they have to do to get power to a hair dryer, or to watch TV. With an inverter and transfer switch everything is automatic, including generator start to recharge house batteries.

I had the first set up in my first coach and my wife never did understand why she couldn't light the table lamp unless we were on shore power or the generator was running. She eventually learned the big black knob that selected the power source had to be turned to shore or generator power to get AC electric to make certain things work.

The last two coaches were inverter equipped and she does not have to know or understand anything. All she has to do is plug something into an outlet, or turn something on, just like at home. For her the coach enjoyability is at a very high level because it is not like "camping".

digesterman · February 20, 2015, 05:32:34 AM

Amen to that

Dave5Cs · February 20, 2015, 07:28:43 AM

Yep as Debo said it was not cheap but well worth it. I have 4 6v deep cycle batteries US 232 AH at 20 Rate. I want to add 4 more being the others are pretty new and the price right now is only 110.00 EA.
The 4024 cost me 1,767.00 Thehousewaresstore.com (free shipping)
ME- BMK was 173.43 with shipping, Arizona wind and power
ME-ARC 50 224.30 with shipping
2 inline fuses with holders 1, 15AMP for battery monitor on positive side
the other from my Vanner to 12 volt positive 20 AMP. 21.00
1 Battery shut off switch, 34.00 West Marine.
Various Cables 50.00 Had a lot of them.

So is not cheap but works well. HTH
Dave5Cs

Gary W · February 20, 2015, 08:33:19 AM

I had a Trace sw 4024 for 8 years when it quit on me last year, I took it to shop to have a look they said they couldn't fix it. They had a lot of trouble dealing with Trace , they no longer carry them and now carry Magnum better to deal with. So I bought a Magnum MS4024 4000 Watt 24 Volt Pure Sine Wave Inverter , works great.I will try to get the Trace repaired when I get near one of their repair depots.

Gary

Oonrahnjay · February 20, 2015, 10:32:15 AM

Quote from: Jon on February 20, 2015, 03:25:30 AM
I think the heart of a decision regarding the electrical system is centered around convenience. We don't need inverters. Any coach can be designed with minimal 120VAC devices, and have most of the coach electrical system DC power. The coach can be set up for shore or generator power, and can use converters to supply DC power or to charge the batteries.

But if the coach is set up with inverters and a good transfer switch it can be almost 100% automatic, not because it makes our life easier, but because our wives never have to try to figure out what they have to do to get power to a hair dryer, or to watch TV. With an inverter and transfer switch everything is automatic, including generator start to recharge house batteries. ...

Yeah, it is convenient but there's the thing about reliability, too. If the power goes off for a day, I come back and the fridge is running, the clocks still read correctly, all my setups are still stored and running OK, etc. "Automatic" is good but "automatically turning back on" is also good.