Small (but very scary) electrical fire

luvrbus · February 13, 2015, 03:09:49 PM

I am not going to be hard him people that bought those from Mike were not real bus people(sorry Gary) they bought it as a ready to go unit on Mikes word

The way he did stuff will blow you away, just give me cash and go that was how Mike did business
I doubt a electrician can figure out some of the things he did on those Moose Cabins after Tom's departure JMO I think all those had 50 and 60 amp Vanners Craig I saw one that had 2-60 amps Vanners he converted

eagle19952 · February 13, 2015, 03:24:12 PM

There is no monkey business that can't be fixed.

Had the 12 ga. wire lug not broken/fatigued (and I am pretty sure that is all that happened) then this probably would have been a non issue for another 7 years.

Lin · February 13, 2015, 03:30:00 PM

Even if it is limited to 35 amps, the wire should be at least a #6. If the vanner is up to 60 amp, it should be #4. That's figuring a 10' run though.

JT4SC · February 13, 2015, 04:21:37 PM

Your right Grumpy and Luvrbus, I am not a bus guy, and before buying the Moose I wasn't even a RV guy... I was a very foolish 28 year old. Life's gotten busier since then so knowing the bus electrical system was not a high enough priority. This wire short has made the safety of the coach a top priority, and I appreciate your guys' help with this issue.

You live and learn through mistakes, and buying the bus from Mike has been a good learning experience for me.

eagle19952 · February 13, 2015, 04:52:28 PM

Quote from: JT4SC on February 13, 2015, 04:21:37 PM
You live and learn through mistakes, and buying the bus from Mike has been a good learning experience for me.

Where near are you located... maybe there is an expert near by ...

gumpy · February 13, 2015, 06:44:46 PM

Quote from: JT4SC on February 13, 2015, 04:21:37 PM
Your right Grumpy and Luvrbus, I am not a bus guy, and before buying the Moose I wasn't even a RV guy... I was a very foolish 28 year old. Life's gotten busier since then so knowing the bus electrical system was not a high enough priority. This wire short has made the safety of the coach a top priority, and I appreciate your guys' help with this issue.

You live and learn through mistakes, and buying the bus from Mike has been a good learning experience for me.

Yes, Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from bad decisions. :-)

Life is what happens while we're busy making plans.

All of it is understandable. There are those out there who tend to feed on the uninformed. We've had a few pass through our bus community
from time to time. I'm not saying Mike is that way, because I don't know him and have never dealt with him, but he is a business man so
his goal is to make money and I think sometimes he cut some corners at times. The whole crossover relay is not a new concept, and actually the
way it was done is not even necessarily bad, but not protecting that high current circuit with an appropriate fuse or breaker is a huge mistake.

Now you know. Now you have more of an incentive to learn about your coach, and this is the place to ask those questions. Don't take
what I said before as a put down in any way. We all start at the basics, and we all ask the same questions at some point.

Lin, that wire that broke looks to me to be about a #2. Maybe even a bit larger.

Lin · February 13, 2015, 09:05:41 PM

Craig- I would have guessed a #8 or #6 at most when comparing it to the size of the fingers holding it. I obviously can be way off.

gumpy · February 14, 2015, 10:36:25 AM

Quote from: Lin on February 13, 2015, 09:05:41 PM
Craig- I would have guessed a #8 or #6 at most when comparing it to the size of the fingers holding it. I obviously can be way off.

Looking at the last photo, you might be right. The wires going to the Vanner appear to be much larger, so maybe it is a #6.
Still, the Vanner photo says it's limited to 50A, so even that should be plenty large for pushing current to the house batteries.
Of course, as seen here, the problem comes when it breaks and creates a dead short and tries to drain the house batteries.

expressbus · February 15, 2015, 07:41:39 AM

JT,

Have you read the small print beneath the Orange Fire Warning label? One comment is the terminal appears to have been installed pointing at the firewall. It should have been installed pointing toward the bottom of the relay and then trained back into the wire organizer. Terminal on cables should be pointed as far away as possible from the surface the relay is mounted on.
That is just my opinion and in this case it would have been easy to accomplish.

belfert · February 15, 2015, 09:29:03 AM

My understanding is that the amp capacity of a Vanner equalizer is only a reflection of how many amps the Vanner can re-balance between the two sides of a 24 volt battery bank. The 12 volt power usually comes straight from the battery bank so you can pull more than the amperage of the Vanner, but not for long periods or the Vanner can never re-balance the batteries.

I have a 200 amp continuous duty solenoid to connect the house and coach batteries, but I used 4/0 cable. Way overkill, but I had a bunch leftover that I got for less than scrap price in 2006.

gumpy · February 15, 2015, 03:59:47 PM

Quote from: belfert on February 15, 2015, 09:29:03 AM

I have a 200 amp continuous duty solenoid to connect the house and coach batteries, but I used 4/0 cable. Way overkill, but I had a bunch leftover that I got for less than scrap price in 2006.

Hope you have fuses on both ends of that cable. Just think of the fireball a 4/0 cable would make when shorted directly to the bus frame. On common term would be "welder".

belfert · February 16, 2015, 06:15:20 PM

Quote from: gumpy on February 15, 2015, 03:59:47 PM
Hope you have fuses on both ends of that cable. Just think of the fireball a 4/0 cable would make when shorted directly to the bus frame. On common term would be "welder".

There are actually circuit breakers on each end. One is a 225 amp circuit breaker and the other is a 90 amp automotive circuit breaker. The feed from the bus is only 90 amps so that is why the 90 amp breaker.

gumpy · February 16, 2015, 08:25:26 PM

Quote from: belfert on February 16, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
There are actually circuit breakers on each end. One is a 225 amp circuit breaker and the other is a 90 amp automotive circuit breaker. The feed from the bus is only 90 amps so that is why the 90 amp breaker.

Good job!

In all honesty, I'm not sure I put fuses on both ends of my crossover. It's now on the punch list to check this spring while I'm cleaning up some other issues which I overlooked when I did my battery installation.