GOSH, I WISH THAT I WEREN'T SO DUMB......Florida bus again.

[John316]

A little birdie told me the Prevost in FL has a weak engine so check it out it was blowing a little water out the right side air box drain when he looked at it, could be just condensation from setting or could be another problem needs to be driven for 40 or 50 miles

LOL, Clifford. You are awesome. I am glad you on our side

[luvrbus]

He told me it is was pretty rough not something he was willing to tackle with all the wiring problems   

[robertglines1]

Project bus:? but sounds like it needs real good tire kicking. Was elect problem on prev ost side or house?  Nice to have troops on ground.. Sometimes it comes down to how much we can do  in long run and what we can live with as  to condition.  The only reason this one even peaked my interest was a factory conversion pre creston ( complicated systems )

[Jon]

Once a bus reaches a certain age Mother Nature and financial realities begin to scream WALK AWAY.

It doesn't matter if it is an Eagle or a Prevost. Old buses have lots of issues that age cause. Corrosion is certainly a big concern. Generally a bus conversion that was never a seated coach is going to be waaaaaay better than a bus that was used year round in all kinds of conditions. But that doesn't mean a bus converted from new is immune. It was just exposed to less damaging conditions. Clifford named the areas I would look at on an older Prevost for corrosion, but even if the frame corrosion is minimal or non-existent the corrosion of everything from fasteners to hose clamps to fittings makes older buses a real pain in the @$# to repair.

As to the electrical problems on a professional conversion, that is not surprising and I would not consider that a deal breaker with one exception. Usually as coaches age the owners stop taking them to Prevost or the bus converter for repairs, and instead take them to Harvey's Bait Shop and Bus Repair. Harvey doesn't bother with those pesky wire diagrams when something goes wrong, he just assumes he knows more than the guys that put the bus together in the first place and he starts rewiring with the expected results. A patient owner willing to spend time and do some research can usually fix issues. With the one exception. That is wiring that has become mouse food. Not only do rodents like to eat the insulation, they seem to get at it where mankind cannot access without destroying the coach.

But so far, of all the coaches posted on this site as potential candidates I see none as a better alternative to the Prevost. If the engine is weak but still runs OK that buys time to find a bus or truck being scrapped that has a good 8V92 in it. It will never pay to rebuild one. That is where the financial considerations come into play. An owner of an old bus needs cash reserves to deal with the most expensive potential repair because only the lucky among us are able to plan for repairs, and have the cheapest alternative available. Usually something breaks when we are on an interstate hundreds of miles from home and our cache of spare parts

[bevans6]

Old buses are kind of like having an old hunting camp.  You go up on the weekend, You drive fours hours on Friday night, you work on it all day Saturday, you sit on the dock and drink beer and tell stories all night, then you kind of limp around Sunday morning till it's time to drive the 4 hours to get home.  You don't walk around in the woods scaring deer very much at all...

Brian

[luvrbus]

Wiring issues are not expensive to repair for big money parts they are just very labor consuming chasing the wires I understand that Prevost has a problem with both systems the generator runs but no power when Devin was there people were working on the generator system they want to sell it as is and not spend any money on the unit   

[Jeremy]

Old buses are kind of like having an old hunting camp.  You go up on the weekend, You drive fours hours on Friday night, you work on it all day Saturday, you sit on the dock and drink beer and tell stories all night, then you kind of limp around Sunday morning till it's time to drive the 4 hours to get home.  You don't walk around in the woods scaring deer very much at all...

Brian

It's exactly the same when you have a boat in a marina somewhere too...infinitely more time is spent traveling, maintaining and paying for things than is ever spent sailing. As the saying goes, "The two best days of <your choice of expensive toy> ownership are the day you buy it, and the day you sell it"

Jeremy

PS - I personally like working on wiring problems more than probably any other aspect - it's a very clean and totally logical thing to work on, and when you fix it it's immensely satisfying. Unlike, for example, plumbing or mechanical issues that can be very messy and where there's always an element of uncertainty, even when you 'think' you've solved the problem.

[Jon]

Any further discussion likely does not matter. The Prevost seems gone from ebay.

[ros]

Hi, Bruce and thank you for taking the time to go over things that you consider that I should consider.

All of these things have been gone over before.  I THINK that I know enough to venture forth. 
However, I emphasized 'think'.  I will never know it all.  I just have to do what needs to be done.

By the way, I would not use the bus to go shopping, I have a toad for that.

Trying to think of all of the details, Bruce, is pretty much all that I do.  I research this or that about buses and spend my daylight hours into the wee hours of the morning searching for buses that I may be able to afford and at the same time, ensure that they are in good condition - as much as I can.

In the case, as has been said, I would never spend that kind of money for an engine, mainly because I cannot.  The other reason is, even if I did have that financial wherewithal, I wouldn't.  I would park it and look for a used engine from someone who is reputable.

I think that you misunderstood me, I said that I live in a resort community and would never consider something like that for my 'parking place'.

Again, thanks, Bruce.


Ros

       OK, this is serious.  I understand.  And I DO NOT want to seem a naysayer, but if you're in a critical life situation, you should be thinking about all the details.   

       First, let's talk about a little context here.  Some people here are full-timers with enough resources that they don't have to stick to a tight budget, others are full-timers who DO have to stick to a tight budget, others have a bus/coach conversion that they use for business purposes ("entertainers", temp relocations for short/medium term work contracts, and there are others of us (of all financial conditions) for whom bus ownership is basically a toy.  We will all have different points of view on things.

       There will be people here who can help with tips for simple fulltime living on a budget.  And that's just fine.  But I think that you should be aware of the fact that there are some challenges that bus owners face.  There is always the issue of parking; sometimes you can lease a quiet place (local codes and restrictions sometimes make this difficult) but day-to-day can be a challenge.  Local and state parks often have a limit to the number of consecutive days or the number of days in a week or month.  And there's the issue of hookups -- a person *can* live full-time boondocking but it is so much more convenient and simpler to live in a place or have a place available that provides "shore power", water and sewer.  And parking and utilities can be expensive.  And you mention driving to the grocery store -- many places to fulltime in a bus are not really convenient to shopping, doctor's appointments (sometimes important for us old people), work, etc.  And you mention a situation with a resort county; those are often the most bus-un-friendly.

        Now, none of this is a stopper.  Many people have successfully dealt with these issues and managed to live on less than the whole property-owning, tax-paying, yard-mowing scene.  But if I were you and I were facing a critical situation, I'd investigate the cost of parking -- in places that were "boondocking" (not forgetting the making your own electricity is usually a good bit more expensive than buying it from the electric company), places with hookups, a budget for utilities, and a reserve for making bus repairs and upgrades.  Also, if you intend to move around, you have to factor in bus fuel and maintenance costs -- and NOTHING about this is cheap!

        Not saying that this is a bad idea but be aware of what you're facing going in.

        On the other hand, things can be done at a lower cost.  I recently spent a week on my bus plugged into a 15A socket - put a "Kill-o-watt" meter on it set to "K-watt cost".  It showed that I'd used less than $1.50 of the local power rates.  Now, that's *everything* in my favor.  I started with 95% batteries, I had no heating or air conditioning costs (mid-summer and mid-winter would be WAY different), was running a 12V fridge, and had only one person on the bus and had no sewer hookup so I wasn't running the water heater on the bus.  But it shows a "low variable".    Taxes on a bus will be way lower than a house and property.   You'll live smaller and that helps.  Do you have family or other people sharing the bus?  That will make a difference.  And being long-term unemployed, I can tell you that being free from having to live near a job, the costs of getting back and forth, the "daily costs" of working, etc. can make an un-attached life style life style cheaper -- or at least balance off some of the costs.

        And one other final note, the costs of finishing or modifying the conversion of a bus can be high.  Same for repairs if the bus isn't in good mechanical shape when you buy it.  What you buy, where you buy it, info on the weak points on a particular bus type, the quality of the inspection before you buy, the layout and equipment on the bus can all have an effect on the overall cost of owning it over the longer term (or even the shorter term).  And, don't forget, if you're "living near the bone", a major bus failure can wreck your finances.  For instance, a major engine failure (rare but not unheard of) can basically total a low-cost/low-value bus;  If you don't have the $15 - $18 -$20 - $25,000 to replace an engine, you basically lose your home.  All this is to say that in the condition of buying a bus to live at a lower cost, one must be very careful what you buy. 

        So, definitely not a nay-sayer here.  But I urge you to be aware of the realities of living in a bus and making plans to cover the costs and quirks.  Good luck!  And don't forget that many of us who fulltime or "mosttime" on buses love it!  Go for it, if it fits you -- but be aware and do it like a business proposition.

[ros]

Tom,

I am sure that you are right.

Ros

Hi Bruce, very concise and encompassing,  ros, the basic form is tin can camping, the high end has no limits on luxury, lvmci...

[Oonrahnjay]

...   PS - I personally like working on wiring problems more than probably any other aspect - it's a very clean and totally logical thing to work on, and when you fix it it's immensely satisfying. Unlike, for example, plumbing or mechanical issues that can be very messy and where there's always an element of uncertainty, even when you 'think' you've solved the problem.

      IDK, it seems every electrical problem I run into is "an intermittent problem".   I tell people 'I grew up dating North Carolina girls, I worked for British companies for 20 years, and I used to be engaged to a red head, so I KNOW what frustration is, but there are very few things more frustrating than an intermittent electrical problem!'  So maybe there's an "element of uncertainty" with those little electrictrons, too!

[ros]

Bruce, you are right; intermittent electrical, electronic and software are maddening.

Fortunately, there are methods to seek them out and repair them, in all of the above.


Ros

      IDK, it seems every electrical problem I run into is "an intermittent problem".   I tell people 'I grew up dating North Carolina girls, I worked for British companies for 20 years, and I used to be engaged to a red head, so I KNOW what frustration is, but there are very few things more frustrating than an intermittent electrical problem!'  So maybe there's an "element of uncertainty" with those little electrictrons, too!

[Jon]

Ros,

With all due respect the loss of an engine is not an issue you can deal with under your terms. Nothing ever breaks when we are parked at our home base with access to our tools and resources.

If an engine is going to have a catastrophic failure requiring its replacement it is probably going to happen on the road. Once that first domino tips it likely begins a chain of very costly events. The first is getting a tow. Then you end up in the tow company yard or at a repair shop, neither of which you would likely choose. At that point you are a hostage. No business I know of is likely going to let you take your time researching available, cheap, useable engines. More than likely you are going to be pressured to authorize them to do the repair work, or come up with a place to go because you are in their yard and if you aren't using their services you need to be gone.

Or worse, you get sucked into letting them give you a price for a simple repair, such as replacing the widget, only to find out the entire engine is toast and sitting in pieces on their shop floor. All of a sudden that $1000 repair has escalated to a $15,000 rebuild on an $8,000 bus (if the engine was running). The alternative of course is to never drive your bus, which saves the cost of licensing, insurance, tires, fuel, etc. At that point a nice 5th wheel becomes the best choice.

Or maybe you will be lucky.

[Oonrahnjay]

...   All of these things have been gone over before.  ... 

      Yes, and as I was writing, I was thinking "he's probably been working on all this" but it seemed a good thing to put the basics all together in one place.  And I was hoping to not sound lecturing, like I said, just trying to organize some facts.   it's good that you're getting the prep work done.

I think that you misunderstood me, I said that I live in a resort community and would never consider something like that for my 'parking place'.

Again, thanks, Bruce.    Ros     

      Right.  Some people feel "hooked" to one particular place -- even if it's a bad one -- by the need to be there for a job.  If you can move (or even better, if it's in your job interests to move), it will be a great advantage for you.

      There will be "the right bus" for you out there - it's just a matter of finding it!  Good luck with your effort.

[ros]

Thanks for the input, Jon.

However, I know all of that but our methods vary greatly.

It suspect that because you have the 'bucks', that you might find yourself in that situation whereby 'they' could hold you hostage and that you would give them approval to repair the engine.  When one doesn't have the 'bucks' they have to anticipate what booby traps lay ahead and ensure that they defuse all that they can.  I wouldn't let them take me to their shop in the first place.  BTDT.

I continue to say that if I were on the road and an engine or transmission blew, I would have it towed to a park that would allow me to stay while I searched for the parts.  If there were no parks around, I would seek a place to temporarily store it while I found another space.  Yes, all of that is tremendously hard to do on foreign turf.

Also, I have already put a few feelers out for a used, known-good 8v71/8v-6v92.  I think that it would be wise to buy one ahead of time (if you know which engine 'the' bus has) and store it in a storage rental place for if and when I need it.  

Is all of this lots of trouble, darn tootin, it is.  

I have looked around for a lifetime and I just can't seem to find the magical metaphysical certitude.

Again, I don't think a fifth-wheel would hold my treasures.

Jon, you have no idea of just how much that I wish it were all different but I have been dealt some cards and I am trying to do the best that I can with them.

I have mentioned that with any bus that I get, I would move to Dallas' rv park and soak up as much of his knowledge that he is willing to share.  I could do work at his yard but of course the engine/transmission won't 'blow' while I am there but he could give them a pretty fair assessment.


Ros

Ros,

With all due respect the loss of an engine is not an issue you can deal with under your terms. Nothing ever breaks when we are parked at our home base with access to our tools and resources.

If an engine is going to have a catastrophic failure requiring its replacement it is probably going to happen on the road. Once that first domino tips it likely begins a chain of very costly events. The first is getting a tow. Then you end up in the tow company yard or at a repair shop, neither of which you would likely choose. At that point you are a hostage. No business I know of is likely going to let you take your time researching available, cheap, useable engines. More than likely you are going to be pressured to authorize them to do the repair work, or come up with a place to go because you are in their yard and if you aren't using their services you need to be gone.

Or worse, you get sucked into letting them give you a price for a simple repair, such as replacing the widget, only to find out the entire engine is toast and sitting in pieces on their shop floor. All of a sudden that $1000 repair has escalated to a $15,000 rebuild on an $8,000 bus (if the engine was running). The alternative of course is to never drive your bus, which saves the cost of licensing, insurance, tires, fuel, etc. At that point a nice 5th wheel becomes the best choice.

Or maybe you will be lucky.