4106 Engine Trouble? Weird Crunching Noises...

bevans6 · October 21, 2014, 09:44:50 AM

I went and found my manual - left hand rotation engines, which yours is, use a bolt and washer on the right hand pulley instead of the nut and lock plate. They only use the nut and lock plate on the left hand cam pulley, as your picture shows.

Edit: torque on the nut on the left hand (compressor drive) cam nut is 300 - 325 ft lbs. Torque on the 9/16" 18 tpi bolt is 180 - 190 ft lbs with assembly lube on the threads and under the bolt head, so they torque it kind of like a rod bolt, stretching the bolt to lock it in place.

Brian

luvrbus · October 21, 2014, 09:56:52 AM

It's diamond shape on the gear but the actual lock is a circle with adjustment holes that takes 2 allen head bolts.

DD had so many problems with the 50D trashing the engines they developed a special locking system and cam for the 50D If I could post a photo here I could show the set up to you

The planetary gear for the alternator diffidently uses a lock system that is not on yours I am going to try a PM you a photo

luvrbus · October 21, 2014, 10:34:18 AM

Mark photo sent

OneLapper · October 21, 2014, 12:17:06 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on October 21, 2014, 10:34:18 AM
Mark photo sent

Got the photo, Clifford. Big thank you!

I got the air compressor and alternator off... trying to get my SD card reader slot on my PC to work. As soon as it is I'll upload the pictures.

OneLapper · October 21, 2014, 12:40:10 PM

Okay, thank goodness I didn't forget the locking washer for the left cam nut.....

Everything looks normal. I can turn the alternator and air compressor by hand, neither feel crunchy in any way.

luvrbus · October 21, 2014, 12:50:38 PM

Take a screw driver and see if the planetary moves that is scary no lock on the planetary gear cam

RickB · October 21, 2014, 12:50:52 PM

Due to the fact that it all happened I'm wondering if you lost a tooth on the flywheel or the starter and it got stuck for awhile in the bell housing. Easy enough to check. And if it is, it won't take many starts before you land on that missing tooth. It also may account for the sparks you saw. Hard to believe you would have visible sparks coming from inside the motor.

RB

eagle19952 · October 21, 2014, 02:01:03 PM

Is that an optical illusion... that ear on top doesn't look right...

chessie4905 · October 21, 2014, 02:44:32 PM

Pull the starter; the bendix may have broken internally or a tooth came off the drive.

OneLapper · October 21, 2014, 06:31:59 PM

I HATE pulling the starter off this engine! The flywheel and starter are on the transmission side of the rear cover. The cam gears are on the inside. This problem is definitely on the inside.

Clifford, what is supposed to be on the planetary gear for a lock? IIRC, this is what I took off both engines. I think there was only the bolt holding the planetary gear to the right cam.

RB, I absolutely hear you. If I didn't see a spark shoot out of the tranny pump hole myself I'd say "no way" too. But it happened. The question is what got into the teeth of the gears and how much, if any, damage was done.

I suppose I have to figure out how far I'm going into this engine. I can't pull the engine pan down because of the way I built my hitch, but I can loosen it and drop it a couple inches, enough to fish around in it with a magnet.

mung · October 21, 2014, 06:44:14 PM

All I can say is I don't ever want to have to see that far into my engine.

OneLapper · October 21, 2014, 06:45:52 PM

Quote from: eagle19952 on October 21, 2014, 02:01:03 PM
Is that an optical illusion... that ear on top doesn't look right...

Donald, yes, optical illusion. The ear is there and fine, the camera is at the perfect angle to make it look like it's missing.

luvrbus · October 21, 2014, 06:56:07 PM

Mark in the photo I sent you notice you cannot the see the diamond shape on the gear the lock goes over the bolt head on the cam covers the diamond shape and is locked in place with the the 2 screws in the photo the lock is not on your engine

OneLapper · October 21, 2014, 06:57:21 PM

Quote from: mung on October 21, 2014, 06:44:14 PM
All I can say is I don't ever want to have to see that far into my engine.

Well, I honestly thought that I'd never have to see these parts of my engine again! I was so super careful when I put this engine together. Maybe you get what you pay for.... I paid $2500 for the engine and figured it was worth it since it had a new factory block. I ended up using most of the engine because the blower and heads were Reliabuilt units and looked absolutely like new.

The question I have is what is in there that can break off?

?

OneLapper · October 21, 2014, 07:03:17 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on October 21, 2014, 06:56:07 PM
Mark in the photo I sent you notice you cannot the see the diamond shape on the gear the lock goes over the bolt head on the cam covers the diamond shape and is locked in place with the the 2 screws in the photo the lock is not on your engine

Ack! Neither my original engine or the NYC transit engine had that locking plate! Time to call the DD dealer and see if they can find a part number and order it.