Biodiesel or B85 in an MCI 102A3 - safe for fuel lines for a single fill?

daveola · October 15, 2014, 01:54:26 AM

What's the safety for running an MCI 102A3 (with a 6V92) on Biodiesel or B85 for a single fillup? (This is not a question about straight WVO or SVO, but about biodiesel). I've heard that it can start to make the fuel lines soft, but is only one tank (say, 200 gallons) going to be a problem?

daveola · October 15, 2014, 01:58:13 AM

Incidentally, here's the reason *why* I am asking:

(though I hesitate to post this because I fear that this will turn into a straight VO discussion topic instead of a biodiesel discussion topic, and we've had that discussion enough times - I understand that many of you think that WVO is a bad idea and many of you are running on it fine - let's save that discussion for somewhere else)

The reason I want to do this is because I have a WVO system in my bus which has worked fine for many thousands of miles, but the bus has been sitting for a couple years and the WVO in it has gotten old and sticky - I have mostly emptied the tanks, but there's still plenty of old and sticky WVO in the system. And yes, I realize it was a mistake to let WVO sit for so long, but what's done is done and I don't intend to throw out the whole system. The bus will still run on the WVO, but it starts to cough a bit because it gunks up the injectors (fortunately injector cleaner from an auto parts store worked like a champ after only a mile of driving!).

I know that biodiesel is great at dissolving WVO - I even use it to clean up spills around my tanks - so I'm wondering about just filling up my WVO tank with a couple hundred gallons of biodiesel and running through it in order to clean the rest of the WVO out. So that's my current question. I am pretty sure that biodiesel will do a great job of cleaning my system out, but I'm worried it will damage the original section of fuel lines that are being used in the bus (the WVO lines are all biodiesel safe rubber)

Oonrahnjay · October 15, 2014, 05:57:23 AM

Quote from: daveola on October 15, 2014, 01:58:13 AM
Incidentally, here's the reason *why* I am asking:

(though I hesitate to post this because I fear that this will turn into a straight VO discussion topic instead of a biodiesel discussion topic, and we've had that discussion enough times - I understand that many of you think that WVO is a bad idea and many of you are running on it fine - let's save that discussion for somewhere else)

The reason I want to do this is because I have a WVO system in my bus which has worked fine for many thousands of miles, but the bus has been sitting for a couple years and the WVO in it has gotten old and sticky - I have mostly emptied the tanks, but there's still plenty of old and sticky WVO in the system. And yes, I realize it was a mistake to let WVO sit for so long, but what's done is done and I don't intend to throw out the whole system. The bus will still run on the WVO, but it starts to cough a bit because it gunks up the injectors (fortunately injector cleaner from an auto parts store worked like a champ after only a mile of driving!).

I know that biodiesel is great at dissolving WVO - I even use it to clean up spills around my tanks - so I'm wondering about just filling up my WVO tank with a couple hundred gallons of biodiesel and running through it in order to clean the rest of the WVO out. So that's my current question. I am pretty sure that biodiesel will do a great job of cleaning my system out, but I'm worried it will damage the original section of fuel lines that are being used in the bus (the WVO lines are all biodiesel safe rubber)

"Older" buses had a problem; sometime about 20-25 years ago, manufacturers changed the rubber mix in fuel lines (for many reasons - not just bio-D). I'm gonna guess your bus is right at the changeover point, which doesn't help you.
I think that about all you can do is run the bio-D - but you have already bought a dozen fuel filters, right?

dukegrad98 · October 15, 2014, 08:24:07 AM

Quote from: daveola on October 15, 2014, 01:58:13 AM
I am pretty sure that biodiesel will do a great job of cleaning my system out, but I'm worried it will damage the original section of fuel lines that are being used in the bus (the WVO lines are all biodiesel safe rubber)

If you have a proper two-tank system, and it sounds like you do, why not just run the biodiesel in the WVO side and D2 in the regular side? That solves your hose problem, at least by this quote. Just fill the WVO tank with B90 or whatever you can get, and treat it like the main tank until things are cleaned out.

I have six-digits worth of miles on WVO and biodiesel in various vehicles. Depending on how your lines are set up, the biodiesel is far more likely to cause you a fuel filter clog (or two or three) than a hose problem, at least in the short term.

Cheers, John

daveola · October 15, 2014, 01:24:59 PM

Quote from: dukegrad98 on October 15, 2014, 08:24:07 AM
If you have a proper two-tank system, and it sounds like you do, why not just run the biodiesel in the WVO side and D2 in the regular side?

That's actually my plan, but that still uses a small amount of the original fuel line, not to mention whatever is inside the engine that might be negatively effected by biodiesel. But it sounds like one 200 gallon tank won't be that big of a problem (and fortunately, since it's going through the WVO side, I have lots of filters

digesterman · October 15, 2014, 06:34:01 PM

I don't like bio diesel, I lose some power, but while traveling in Calif recently I could not find any stations that didn't sell bio, state law maybe. Guess we have to get use to it altho there is no shortage of gas/oils according to the news today.

wal1809 · October 15, 2014, 06:46:03 PM

I advice you not to put anything but diesel in the old fuel lines. Svo wvo or biodiesel WILL destroy the old fuel lines. It will not take long either. Change the fuel lines and any original rubber components and youre good to go.

Two tank, one tank it doesn't matter. When acidic fuel hit the fuel lines, they are done for.

luvrbus · October 15, 2014, 08:13:27 PM

Walt you still using WVO in your Eagle ?

wal1809 · October 15, 2014, 08:17:18 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on October 15, 2014, 08:13:27 PM
Walt you still using WVO in your Eagle ?

Hello Luvrbus, I am but not as much as I should. I just got really busy somehow and have not had time to take the bus out. I intend to change that though.

luvrbus · October 15, 2014, 08:23:46 PM

Lol it is getting cooler you should have time not as many rattle snakes for you catch with the cooler weather and winter coming

wal1809 · October 16, 2014, 04:09:45 AM

Lol I see tou have not forgotton me. Somehow I went from a lazy teenager with no direction to now and older side of the hill with no time to even turn around. With a career and now three side businesses, I have no time.

There is a reason I dragged the old girl out. I have to force myself to stop working. I need to get her out on the road. I have some medical issues. The old ticker aint ticking right. The doctor gave me the old "IF YOU DONT SLOW DOWN" speach. My heart went into full blown atrial fibrilation and stayed that way fir over a month. Instead of boom boom heart beat, i get a boom quiver quiver quiver. I am not playing around with his advice. I amoing to beat this.

Back to topic. I thought I would have had time to change out the rubber fuel lines after i converted to two tank system. I was wrong. I ran a blend of bio d and d2 while i was building my two tank system. On a trip to ft worth myfuel lines cratered. It was aweful. I had no choice but to keep going to make it home.

Half the next day was spent with spray cans of engine degreaser, cleaning the engine compartment. The next 12 hours tearing into the engine to replace fuel lines. I chose a chemical rated fuel line.

Twix my wife and I we have over 400,000 miles on bioD and WVO. I have enough oil to last a while. I stopped collecting. I believe I am sitting on the fence. One side is bio fuels and the other, staright diesel. I loved making my own fuel,but i can tell you it will consume your entire life. Every freakin time I turned around, there was a problem with something. I built a Murphys Machine. Capable of making 400 gallons of bio diesel a day. I dont use it any longer. I thought about selling everything i own that is associated with bio fuels.

Oonrahnjay · October 16, 2014, 06:51:04 AM

Quote from: wal1809 on October 16, 2014, 04:09:45 AM... Twix my wife and I we have over 400,000 miles on bioD and WVO. .... I dont use it any longer. I thought about selling everything i own that is associated with bio fuels.

I have over 350K miles on my VW TDI's in 12 years. I've run one tank of bio-D. I've heard a lot of stories like yours which is why I've never messed with it. The tank I ran was OK - engine did fine, fuel economy dropped. But I'm happy burning dinosaurs.

digesterman · October 16, 2014, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: Oonrahnjay on October 16, 2014, 06:51:04 AM
But I'm happy burning dinosaurs.

LOL, love it

wal1809 · October 17, 2014, 04:44:50 AM

Quote from: Oonrahnjay on October 16, 2014, 06:51:04 AM
I have over 350K miles on my VW TDI's in 12 years. I've run one tank of bio-D. I've heard a lot of stories like yours which is why I've never messed with it. The tank I ran was OK - engine did fine, fuel economy dropped. But I'm happy burning dinosaurs.

Our jettas did the same on a little power loss. I ran 50/50 diesel and wvo blend in my Excursion and it suffered bad power loss and fuel economy. It held 46 gallons in the tank. So 44 gallons of 5050 and 2 gallons of regular unleaded gasoline would bring it bavk to life.

Now these cars did well on alternstive fuels. Again i will caution anyone with a bus to change thier fuel lines before they put anything alternstive into the system. You can hsve a two tank system. Mine was configured where the two tank system fuel lines met befire the engine and had to share the same fuel lines at the pump, crossovers and final filter.

Oonrahnjay · October 17, 2014, 06:35:44 AM

Quote from: wal1809 on October 17, 2014, 04:44:50 AM
Our jettas did the same on a little power loss. I ran 50/50 diesel and wvo blend ...

Exactly what is that "blend"? Did you just dump untreated wvo in the fuel with dino diesel?

I'm not saying that that wouldn't work (at least for a while) but I'm the kind of guy who installed a CAT IR-750 fuel filter in my Jetta cause I'm paranoid crazy about fuel quality/ cleanliness, so just the thought of that scares me to death!