Inverter/charger/switch question

daddyoften · October 24, 2014, 07:09:20 PM

I'm reconsidering my setup, a lot to figure out. Thank you all for your advise and information.
Next question in this series.... :-)
I was first sold on getting an inverter/charger/switch as all one unit. I really liked the simple install and only one unit to install, but after some research it might be better to have 2-3 different separate pieces. What are peoples experiences with either all in one units or separate pieces?
Thank you,
Eric

akroyaleagle · October 24, 2014, 10:36:17 PM

If you get an all in one unit, anything that fails will leave you unable to use the other two functions.

A separate inverter, charger, converter is my way.

bevans6 · October 25, 2014, 05:05:44 AM

It's just two schools of thought. One thought is that all the functions are completely intertwined - charging the battery, switching between sources, generating the electricity - that it makes more sense to have one unit that controls all of the functions at once. The other thought is that you can do that with separate boxes, which is possible, but you have to work at it to have the charger come on and off automatically when the inverter is or isn't working, that sort of thing. Many people start out with separate systems thinking that is the better way (I did exactly that) and then go to the other way (like my Magnum 4024) when the first way doesn't work very well. My lower cost (it was still bloody expensive) inverter died, and my 24 volt battery charger wasn't strong enough. My transfer switches were just fine, mind you. It's also quite difficult to get an auto-start generator working well in a fully separate system.

Brian

luvrbus · October 25, 2014, 05:42:09 AM

I had stacked Traces a 12v system for 4000w the only problem I had with the Trace was the charger sometimes we were with out a inverter for 2 weeks while being repaired, after the last repair I never turned on the charger

I bought a Iota charger with the IQ4 as far I know it's still going strong after 5 years and it stopped the bulging of the 1st battery in the string. My theory on a battery bank is what goes out has to be put back in some way

Geom · October 25, 2014, 08:28:08 AM

I agree with the other comments about having more redundancy and usability in discrete systems, but it is much easier/simpler and much less error prone to have as few pieces as possible doing the work.

For us we have an inverter to manage the charging of the house batteries and switching between an inverted load or the pedestal.
I have a seperate auto-switch to control between the generator and the inverter/pedestal. Although I could in theory link the gen control to the inverter, if the inverter is smoked, I like being able to quickly work around it and at least still have some power from the gen (or pedestal).
I also have a pretty beefy charger that I use to manage my start batteries and gen battery. In case of an emergency it can be moved wherever.

digesterman · October 25, 2014, 08:47:11 AM

Quote from: luvrbus on October 25, 2014, 05:42:09 AM
I had stacked Traces a 12v system for 4000w the only problem I had with the Trace was the charger sometimes we were with out a inverter for 2 weeks while being repaired, after the last repair I never turned on the charger

I bought a Iota charger with the IQ4 as far I know it's still going strong after 5 years and it stopped the bulging of the 1st battery in the string. My theory on a battery bank is what goes out has to be put back in some way

If you hook up your positive lead from your charger or combo inverter to the first batteries pos and your neg from the charger/inverter to the neg side of your last battery it usually takes care of the problem of boiling the first battery in a group.

Iota is a good smart charger IMO

oltrunt · October 25, 2014, 09:56:52 AM

My little bus has both shore, genny and inverter capabilities (a converter as well) and while I trust computers, relays, automatic switches and the like everywhere else, I chose to go with a manual system rather than automatic switching when it comes to powering up my bus. Paranoid, probably, but I used up my free "survive an electrocution" card when I was a child and now make sure I know that any stray electrons will find their way back to their source without using me as a---short---cut. Each of my systems has its own hot, ground and neutral circuits accessed one at a time by a single 3 prong RV style pigtail which powers the high voltage breaker panel. I also test the shore post for proper wiring before hook up to the bus. I kid myself that manually changing my power source helps me keep my mind in training but I still haven't forgotten the real reason.

daddyoften · October 25, 2014, 10:43:20 AM

Oh boy! Last night I was looking up the Vectron units and thought I was sold on them. Yes the automatic and all built to work together idea sure sounds nice. But if one breaks.....=-O I'm still learning.....:-)

bevans6 · October 25, 2014, 11:45:20 AM

Look at it this way. If you have the Victron and it breaks, you'll not need the switch part because the Victron will be out of the circuit, same as if any inverter had failed. You can buy or carry a $50 charger from Walmart that can be substituted in about a minute and keep your batteries charged in a pinch. So going with three units actually doesn't save you from anything very important or messy, and three units increases the possibility of a failure anyway, three things to go wrong instead of just one...

Brian

luvrbus · October 25, 2014, 12:18:31 PM

Victron those are fun to get worked on installed in a RV it has to go back,we had 2 in the boat and what a rip off from the marine dealer to repair the Dutch made things, they are little shy on repair centers across the US

Geom · October 25, 2014, 12:53:56 PM

Quote from: daddyoften on October 25, 2014, 10:43:20 AM
Oh boy! Last night I was looking up the Vectron units and thought I was sold on them. Yes the automatic and all built to work together idea sure sounds nice. But if one breaks.....=-O I'm still learning.....:-)

If the inverter gets smoked, you can bypass it and run directly to your breaker panel. Since it's not working, your house batteries are also no longer in play. Putting a decent external charger on them will top them off until the inverter is fixed.

As far as the likelihood of it getting smoked, your milage may vary, but we've been using ours quite heavily (including some hot summer bay temps) for about 6 months (not a lifetime but...) and it's run like a champ with few issues. The only issue (and I suspect the problem is likely elsewhere) is with the boosting capability when boosting a load over 40amps. It does great when boosting <20amps but at 40 it acts... strange. That's only on boosting (when drawing more than your pedestal plug can offer (like driveway surfing on 20amps). It runs fine with direct power and it can't invert more than 2500w anyway (the 3000 va unit)

.

Luvrbus is right though, if you have to have them worked on, they will require being shipped back to the vendor as there is no one around that works on them. I would think that is true of other brands, but I'm not sure.
Their main US office is in Maine I think. Their tech support people are actually pretty helpful and quite responsive (at least from my experience). I don't know what would happen in a warranty replacement or repair. I would think with a replacement they can use US inventory, a repair might be more complicated.

I would definitely get an external switcher for the gen. Mine has 3 legs, 2 in and one out.
One in comes from the line-protector (from the pedestal) the other from the gen.
The out goes to the 50a in-feed on the inverter. Then the out from the inverter goes to the breaker box.
If the inverter is out of play, for whatever reason, I can shunt the in/out around the inverter quite easily, until it's fixed.
As said earlier, I also have a different charger to use for the start batteries that can be moved to service whatever battery bank I want.

Good luck!

digesterman · October 25, 2014, 04:08:54 PM

I just love the 100% auto aspect. My coach does exactly what it was designed for, provide me with whatever I need whenever I need it.

If when dry camping it needs to recharge batteries it does so by starting the gen, if the thermostats call for AC units to be turned on when off of shore power it will turn the gen on too. If everyone is watching TV, cooking, doing whatever and using a fair amount of power it will of course turn on at a preset voltage setting, so the batteries are never in danger of being damaged.

In my younger days I didn't mind doing some of the manual things but I have come to trust the complete auto systems and so for me it works the best. Most everything I can control and monitor from the net and IPhone so it makes it even more convenient. Tells me if the coach is to hot, to cold, or to humid turns things on and off to keep the bays at the right temp in the winter so nothing freezes. If I lose shore power for some reason then the Aqua Hot diesel heater takes over. If someone enters when they aren't suppose to it will take videos and send me pics in an email.

I would encourage anyone to go with the latest equipment that you can afford, don't be afraid if it is computerized and auto, it just makes life easier.

My biggest problem is getting time to take off