4104 unable to move

eagle19952 · September 23, 2014, 03:45:50 PM

Quote from: pennuja on September 23, 2014, 02:26:17 PM
I was told that they were all turning, I was steering the bus so I was unable to see.

I believe they were too...so eliminate locked brakes/brake problem as the problem...
as far as engine speed....do you have a tach ?
i assume that it was screaming....so regardless the color of smoke ,assuming it was running on at least all but one cylinder....it should move.
IMO that leaves the clutch.
I'll re read your post..

pennuja · September 23, 2014, 04:22:07 PM

Quote from: eagle19952 on September 23, 2014, 03:45:50 PM
I believe they were too...so eliminate locked brakes/brake problem as the problem...
as far as engine speed....do you have a tach ?
i assume that it was screaming....so regardless the color of smoke ,assuming it was running on at least all but one cylinder....it should move.
IMO that leaves the clutch.
I'll re read your post..

That is the thing, I do have a tach and I tried today to rev the engine to move it but when I push on the pedal it moves to the floor but does not make much of a difference other than lots of black smoke. I am hoping that the emergency shut off flap is closed and that solves it but it seems too easy. I had the PO get in back and watch when I push the pedal and you can see the cable move on the governor but very little reving happens, the more I describe it the more it does sound like it could be the shutoff.

I found the emergency stop choke switch in the operators manual so I know what to look for. There is a switch on the right instrument panel that says emergency stop does this activate the same flap because if is very possible that someone could have pressed it while it was not running.

Edit... Since I have been thinking more about it I guess that the issue could also be air filter related since it idles but does not rev up, we never opened up the air filter to even check if it was ok.

Thanks again for everyone taking the time to help me out it is very much appreciated.

chessie4905 · September 23, 2014, 05:33:55 PM

You have to reset the flap manually at the engine. It is spring loaded. Flipping the emergency stop switch releases it, but does not reset it. You need to rotate the little wheel till it latches behind the pin on the solenoid(about the size of a GM starter solenoid; mounted vertical with a shaft pointing down. at the inlet housing. Sure sounds like your problem.

eagle19952 · September 23, 2014, 07:06:09 PM

here's a flappper latch....yours will be solenoid applied and hand reset...this one would be cable activated, hand reset.
this one is not loaded/cocked....it has been applied.

mung · September 23, 2014, 07:18:49 PM

That doesn't look anything like mine on my 4104.

eagle19952 · September 23, 2014, 07:22:27 PM

then find a better picture....it's atypical... $:-\$ better yet go take one..

ps it takes air to make black smoke...

Note: the black smoke of both the push truck and the Phoenix is normal. They over fuel the engine to produce the huge amounts of power. The first time I saw the Phoenix run, I thought it had caught fire.

mung · September 23, 2014, 07:30:22 PM

Hopefully you can see this. On the right side of the blower intake there is a solenoid and below that is the cam for the flap. When the solenoid lifts the cam is released and closes the flap. You lift on the solenoid plunger, then with the little handle on the cam rotate it past the plunger on the solenoid and drop the plunger so that it holds the cam.

eagle19952 · September 23, 2014, 07:33:24 PM

looks like your engine fell on it's face ....

mung · September 23, 2014, 07:34:34 PM

Yeah, trying to get it to go in the right direction.

eagle19952 · September 23, 2014, 07:37:37 PM

horizontal, crankshaft perpendicular to the wheels in 4104....not atypical ...

mung · September 23, 2014, 07:40:46 PM

It is part of that whole angle drive thing.

uncle ned · September 24, 2014, 01:51:40 PM

Dang that truck looks like huggy

uncle ned

gus · September 24, 2014, 04:01:02 PM

The original 4104 has a black button that is strictly for emergencies. It uses air and is not for parking.

If the bus is aired and this button pulled out the rear brakes are locked. With no air they do nothing.

This is not a spring parking brake.

A Maintenance Manual is absolutely essential to answer questions about this bus and a Parts Book is almost as important to give you a picture of problem assemblies.

luvrbus · September 24, 2014, 04:41:42 PM

4104 and early 4106's had ICC brakes if your brakes say not for parking then you have the ICC brakes like Gus said no air no parking brakes

mung · September 24, 2014, 05:15:39 PM

Do you know when they started that on the 4104s? I don't see any sign of that on mine. I have a big handle to the left of my seat that pulls back. Did the later ones have that?