Shore Power Cords

[Scott & Heather]

Thanks Jim. I'm reading through it now


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[Lostranger]

Lostranger, just curious as to how you manage to not need to plug in regularly? I would love to have more electrical freedom but we are tied to the pole or the genset...

Scott, I apologize for taking so long to answer. If you've read much of Rob Gray, you probably already know more than I could tell. I read both of his build threads more than once, and I've also been reading everything I can from folks who live aboard sailboats. They are the real pioneers in mobile energy independence.

The critical issue was deciding that a degree of energy independence was important to us. Once we crossed that threshold, the rest of our bus outfit choices were made accordingly. We have been full timing for more than 2-1/2 years without shore power. I do occasionally plug in at my wood working shop when I'm making extensive use of power tools for the ongoing conversion, but we seldom sleep beside the shop because it's not level. With our original (too small) battery pack we used an old gasoline fired 4500 watt generator part of the time, but it's not been running (or needed) for over a year. With Rob Gray as inspiration, we examined each area of energy use and made choices that appeared to best suit our goals.

Cooking and heating water were easy. We use propane. We've ALWAYS cooked with gas and wouldn't have it any other way. We'll eventually replace our RV sized range with a 30" Peerless Premier model with battery ignition and a full size oven. We both love to cook and bake and we seldom eat out. We heat water on the stove top for hot tea. We do not use a microwave, coffee maker, toaster or toaster oven. We do use a blender and a KitchenAid mixer. I can imagine owning a small but high-quality espresso machine at some point. Our Rheem tankless water heater is more than adequate and does save gas compared to any tank heater we have used.

We do not use propane for space heat. We've never liked the noise or the constant hot-then-cold nature of forced air furnaces, and we do not have battery capacity to run the fans on long, cold nights. We learned by experience that unvented, radiant propane heat is a disaster in seriously cold weather. Rob Gray uses a diesel fired heater, but he never faces the cold that we do. Our original plan was to use radiant floor heat, but the energy numbers did not work for us. We consider both diesel and propane to be expensive sources of primary heat.

Most of the sailboaters who full time in cold areas appear to have wood stoves. We love wood heat, we have a ready supply and we don't mind the work and the mess. We started with this stove for inspiration, but we ended up building one with a similar size fire box: http://www.marinestove.com/codinfo.htm

Of course the huge energy load in most conversions is air conditioning. Most bus owners think they can't live without constant cold air. This is an area where Rob Gray did the most for my thinking. They live without AC in Australia. In his words, AC takes about 2000 watts, a fan takes about 20. When I read that, I recalled spending three weeks in Ghana in the summer of 2000. We spent most of that time in an unfinished house under mosquito netting. It was hot, but I always slept well. I got to spend one night in the home of a missionary who had recycled computer fans to use over each bed. I was amazed at what a difference that tiny, muffin fan made. We have no AC, but we use several small dc powered fans.

The core of our electric system is four Samsung 255 watt solar panels working through a MorningStar 60 amp MPPT charge controller. Our battery bank is four 8D AGM batteries wired series/parallel for 490 amp hours at 24v. I never seriously considered using 12v. Our Magnum 4024 inverter is overkill at 4000 watts, but it seemed to be the best choice for a 24v system. We are careful to keep it asleep as much as possible. We're still using some incandescent lighting, but everything will eventually be 24v LED. I use a 24v to 12v converter to power a few things like our cable modem and wireless router. Those stay on all the time when we're at home base. We use a 32" TV for our nightly Netflix fix, but a smaller one would make more sense. Especially in winter. Our largest AC load is a dorm-size refrigerator. Hopefully that will soon be replaced by a Sundanzer 8cf chest-type refrigerator running on 24v DC.

We have one more major upgrade planned for our energy system. Last summer I bought a ThermoKing TriPac auxiliary power unit that came out of a road tractor. This is an older unit and needs some work, but I bought it worth the money. After I get caught up with some of our interior needs, I plan to rebuild the two cylinder Yanmar diesel and install it where we were planning to keep a generator. It's rated at 13.7 HP and is efficient. The engine drives a 12v alternator and an automotive-style air conditioning compressor. I will add a second alternator putting out 24v. I'll also add a fifth 8D AGM battery and use that battery to start the APU and feed our few 12v loads.

The APU has a remote AC condenser that I'll mount on the bulkhead behind our bedroom. It's evaporator will be inside the bedroom. I'll also plumb the Yanmar's cooling system through a blower coil in the bedroom, but I'll equip that loop with manual valves so coolant will not circulate into the living area during warm weather.

The back half of our bus (bedroom, bathroom, laundry) can be closed off. The APU will provide supplemental heat OR air conditioning to the bedroom. Any time it's running, it will also be charging the house battery banks. That will give us lots of options including a cool place to sleep or recover when it's terrifically hot. Bottom line is that we MAY never use shore power, but I want to keep that option.

Scott, I'm sorry if this is more of an answer than you wanted. None of our system is dogma. What works for us may not be right for you, and we are constantly evaluating options. For instance, I can imagine lithium batteries in our future. I can also imagine a fifth solar panel to charge the 12v battery. One of the reasons I like to discuss our system in public is that I often get helpful feedback.

Hope some of this was helpful. I'd be happy to take a shot at specific questions.

Jim H

[Scott & Heather]

Wow Jim. This is fascinating. I'll be reading through this more than once and googling some of your equipment. Heather and I have access to RV hookups all over the county through our church but I've always felt we were way too tied to the pole or genny. Everything you mention is practical and doable. A/c is important for me cause I have a mold allergy confirmed clinically (not making this up) so keeping humidity and temperature levels controlled in the summer is important. That being said, we still could dramatically reduce our need for pole juice and our next conversion will be built with that in mind. I also without a doubt want wood heat. Just have to keep in mind some jurisdictions ban wood heat cause of smog issues.


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[TomC]

That little 2 cylinder Kubota on the Thermoking Tripac is an excellent engine. Only thing-it is literally a 4 cylinder engine with 2 cylinders lopped off. It is odd firing-it fires 1-2-0-0-1-2-0-0. Hence, it has (in my opinion) a very irritating sound. On a truck parked in a noisy truck stop, this isn't a problem. In a quiet parking place possibly with others, it could be. Once you get the engine overhauled, I would suggest using two mufflers in line (Diesel rated). The actual engine doesn't make that much noise, it just has a bad exhaust tone (not like the smooth 3 or 4 cylinder).  Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

Those fire just like the old 2 cylinder vertical Wisconsin gas engines from the past strange sound indeed

[Lostranger]

Tom, my ThermoKing engine is a Yanmar. I imagine it has the same issues. I do plan to make it as quiet as possible, and series mufflers sounds like a good idea. Thanks.

Scott, I plan to also install the smallest available window AC unit above our bed. I'm certain we can run that on sunny days without sucking batteries dry.

[eagle19952]

Who is Rob Gray....

[Lostranger]

Who is Rob Gray....

www.robgray.com

Rob Gray is my motorhome hero. I mentioned him in an earlier post. He built, and toured Australia for years in, a world famous vehicle called Wothehellizat. Then he took it apart and rebuilt a smaller version. He's a genius, and his website is worthwhile reading for many reasons.

[eagle19952]

Got it .. 

www.robgray.com

[Iceni John]

www.robgray.com

Rob Gray is my motorhome hero. I mentioned him in an earlier post. He built, and toured Australia for years in, a world famous vehicle called Wothehellizat. Then he took it apart and rebuilt a smaller version. He's a genius, and his website is worthwhile reading for many reasons.

Mine too.   I think his interior designs of both versions of his WORT are inspirational, and if I can make my bus even half as nice as his then I'll be happy.

Has anyone here used Furrion stainless inlets instead of Marinco's?   They're much less expensive than Marinco, look nicer, and seem to be decent quality:  http://www.boatersland.com/frrf30insss.html?gclid=CNyu2smI0MECFU9efgod3yQABw   I won't ever need more than 30A of shore power, so a pair of these should work well for me.

John

[gumpy]

Has anyone here used Furrion stainless inlets instead of Marinco's?   They're much less expensive than Marinco, look nicer, and seem to be decent quality:  http://www.boatersland.com/frrf30insss.html?gclid=CNyu2smI0MECFU9efgod3yQABw   I won't ever need more than 30A of shore power, so a pair of these should work well for me.

They look nice. Only one photo, so can't tell what the inside looks like.

Why would you need a pair?

I'd recommend putting in the 50A unit for $20 more and running the wire to support 50A. You may not need it now, but might find in the future that you do. Or a future owner of your bus might.
It's not much more money now, and definitely worth it when you do need it.

[Iceni John]

Gumpy,

Maybe I'll buy just one of the Furrion inlets, and if it seems good quality I can get more later.   I want one for each side, and/or maybe also a third up front, to reduce the need to drag cables too far or under the bus  -  yes, I know that all inlets are live when one is plugged in, but an LED idiot light next to each inlet will remind me to not touch or lick it when connected.   I'd thought about 50A inlets, but my bus is definitely going to be a low-power-usage conversion, so I can't think why I would need all that power  -  heck, most of the time 15A will suffice for my meager needs!   (With a roof-full of solar panels I don't plan on often needing shore power.)

If the Furrions are good quality (or if they're junk), I'll post my findings here to let others know.

John

[Lostranger]

I'd recommend putting in the 50A unit for $20 more and running the wire to support 50A. You may not need it now, but might find in the future that you do.

As much as I've ranted about having little use for shore power, I decided early in the process to wire for 50 amp and put in a 230v outlet somewhere. Just as a prophylactic measure.

[pabusnut]

Whatever cord setup you use, just remember to unplug it and stow it BEFORE you back out! One new baggage door and a 4 ft shorter cord , I think I learned a lesson!


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[Lostranger]

Whatever cord setup you use, just remember to unplug it and stow it BEFORE you back out!

I've recently broken TWO wires that feed our cable modem. One should never move the bus while thinking about the next project. I need to use an airplane-style checklist before switching on the ignition.

But I've not yet made that list.

For some stupid reason.