New to the site - Buying a bus

[Runcutter]

Jim, I re-read your post more than once, because of the question I had in my mind.  You don't mention whether it's a coach (have to be a PD-4104 from that year), or a transit (probably TDM/TDH 4512 if its a 35-footer, TDM/TDH 5107 or 5108) if it's a 40-footer.  If you can see the builder's plate, it'll tell you -- or post a picture if you aren't sure.  The syntax of a GM builders plate is PD-4107-1080.  Translation Parlor Diesel (i.e., an over the road coach) - 41 passengers, 07th model in the series -- serial number 1080.  TDM is a Transit (city bus) Diesel (or G for Gas), M for mechanical (stick shift) H for hydraulic (automatic transmission. 

There's a reason for my question. How you intend to use the bus may change whether the vehicle is suitable for you.  Coaches tend to have more storage space, generally higher highway speeds.  Transits have worked quite well for some members, all in how it's set up and how you use it.  Standard transmission will get you better fuel mileage, but can be an issue in other areas.  One member who used to be quite active on here (Spaceship Buffalo) found that the high first gear of his stick shift coach prohibited him from some areas with steep hills, so he bought a 4108 that had an automatic.  If you want to go off-roading, neither is a good choice -- a schoolbus with its high clearances may be just the ticket.  Coaches and Transits don't like to go off the pavement.

That could be a more important question than relative prices. 

As for me, knowing that the market is so far down that if my coach doesn't sell in the next few months, it may be on its way to the scrapper -- I wouldn't worry about insulting the seller unless you go way below scrap price.  If he/she has asked you to make an offer, start low (perhaps 2 or 2.5K).  That preserves more cash for items you know it needs.  The worst they can do is say "no" -- but if they come back with a counter, it's up to them to be reasonable and not insult your intelligence (their saying $10k to you would be as insulting as you saying $800 to them).  The worst that can happen is you don't have a meeting of the minds.  In that case, remember that this is a buyer's market -- there's a lot of stuff out there for essentially dimes on the dollar.     

Hope this helps.

Arthur 

[muldoonman]

All this lowball buying and scraper prices, I wonder what my 1991 Prevost with 72,000 miles would bring at the scraper?

[harleyman_1000]

All this lowball buying and scraper prices, I wonder what my 1991 Prevost with 72,000 miles would bring at the scraper?

   Hmmmmm find out what scrap price is and I'll give you that and a dollar more

[LuckyChow]

   Hmmmmm find out what scrap price is and I'll give you that and a dollar more

Ballpark around $3,500.

[muldoonman]

Ballpark around $3,500.

Cash??

[pennuja]

Jim, I re-read your post more than once, because of the question I had in my mind.  You don't mention whether it's a coach (have to be a PD-4104 from that year), or a transit (probably TDM/TDH 4512 if its a 35-footer, TDM/TDH 5107 or 5108) if it's a 40-footer.  If you can see the builder's plate, it'll tell you -- or post a picture if you aren't sure.  The syntax of a GM builders plate is PD-4107-1080.  Translation Parlor Diesel (i.e., an over the road coach) - 41 passengers, 07th model in the series -- serial number 1080.  TDM is a Transit (city bus) Diesel (or G for Gas), M for mechanical (stick shift) H for hydraulic (automatic transmission. 

There's a reason for my question. How you intend to use the bus may change whether the vehicle is suitable for you.  Coaches tend to have more storage space, generally higher highway speeds.  Transits have worked quite well for some members, all in how it's set up and how you use it.  Standard transmission will get you better fuel mileage, but can be an issue in other areas.  One member who used to be quite active on here (Spaceship Buffalo) found that the high first gear of his stick shift coach prohibited him from some areas with steep hills, so he bought a 4108 that had an automatic.  If you want to go off-roading, neither is a good choice -- a schoolbus with its high clearances may be just the ticket.  Coaches and Transits don't like to go off the pavement.

That could be a more important question than relative prices. 

As for me, knowing that the market is so far down that if my coach doesn't sell in the next few months, it may be on its way to the scrapper -- I wouldn't worry about insulting the seller unless you go way below scrap price.  If he/she has asked you to make an offer, start low (perhaps 2 or 2.5K).  That preserves more cash for items you know it needs.  The worst they can do is say "no" -- but if they come back with a counter, it's up to them to be reasonable and not insult your intelligence (their saying $10k to you would be as insulting as you saying $800 to them).  The worst that can happen is you don't have a meeting of the minds.  In that case, remember that this is a buyer's market -- there's a lot of stuff out there for essentially dimes on the dollar.     

Hope this helps.

Arthur 

Thanks for the info, I did not ask about the model, and I did not realize that there was a difference. The owner told me that it was 35' I will look at the builder plate, we are supposed to meet with them in a week to discuss the price. I think that he told me that it was a San Francisco city bus when it was originally issued but I could be wrong either way I will find the model info next time.

[chessie4905]

   If it isn't a 4104, but a city bus, I'd forget about it, unless you want to buy it for scrapping or some spare parts for a future 4104.

[pd4501-771]

Please get the serial number if it's a 4104. That number will appear on the dash (builders plate) immediately inside the passenger entry door. Should read PD4104-? A friend here keeps track of those surviving coaches by serial number. Also with that serial we'll tell you the original owner/history of the coach. Serial number is also stamped in "frame" inside the driver's tool compartment. That compartment is on left front corner below driver's window. (it has the bumper extension trim attached to it). Should be a small swing tab latch handle just below the bumper extension trim (bumperette)  that must be operated to access that compartment. The serial number is stamped (about 1" tall text) deep inside toward the back of the compartment. Usually requires a flashlight, and degreaser, as it is always covered in grime.

Thanks

[qayqayt]

Jim,
I think you need to do a lot more research on the GM buses then figure out what will work for you.  Don't jump on this deal, even if it's next to free unless you really know what you're getting into.  As Runcutter said, "it's a buyers market".  Some 35' Transits had highway gearing and might be suitable, but you'll probably be disappointed with a regular transit.  If it was not built to run on the highway it won't make a very good motorhome.  If you take your time, do some research, find a guy who knows GM buses and will talk to you about them, you're better off making a sound decision.  If the seller won't wait, too bad, there are other deals out there.  My only other suggestion is that I wouldn't buy it without driving it, even better if you can find a Detroit Diesel mechanic or someone off this board that's knowledgeable, to help get it going and diagnose any obvious problems. 

Bryan
Vancouver BC

[pennuja]

Jim,
I think you need to do a lot more research on the GM buses then figure out what will work for you.  Don't jump on this deal, even if it's next to free unless you really know what you're getting into.  As Runcutter said, "it's a buyers market".  Some 35' Transits had highway gearing and might be suitable, but you'll probably be disappointed with a regular transit.  If it was not built to run on the highway it won't make a very good motorhome.  If you take your time, do some research, find a guy who knows GM buses and will talk to you about them, you're better off making a sound decision.  If the seller won't wait, too bad, there are other deals out there.  My only other suggestion is that I wouldn't buy it without driving it, even better if you can find a Detroit Diesel mechanic or someone off this board that's knowledgeable, to help get it going and diagnose any obvious problems. 

Bryan
Vancouver BC

Good to know about the gearing, I know that he drove it across the US and used it quite a bit for the first ten years that he owned it. Is there a way to find out about the gearing without doing a visual inspection. Can I ask about the rpm's  at certain speeds or something like that, I would imagine that the gearing is decent since he drove it so much but you never know.

Again thanks for all I the useful info that everyone has given.

[qayqayt]

It's possible the rear end and transmission could have been changed.  See if you can find out the model number and at the very least you'll know what the bus was delivered as.  Anything with PD in the prefix is a highway coach (PD-4104). If the bus was built in 1958 it's not likely a fishbowl.  If it's a transit, it may be an "Oldlook". 

If you go to the Museum of Bus transportation website and click on "fleet" there's a 1959 PD-4104 listed.  You'll find an Oldlook in their collection as well.  If you click on it, a photo comes up.  Also, if you click on this link:  http://www.omot.org scroll to the bottom of the home page and you'll see "production lists".  This is the Ohio Museum of Transportation and they have production lists for most common manufacturers.  With the model and unit number you can see where that bus was originally delivered to.

Do as much research as you can.  There are so many variables that it will make your head spin.

[dukegrad98]

I wonder what my 1991 Prevost with 72,000 miles would bring at the scraper?

I'm only a couple of weeks from dropping off an '89 Prevost at the local scrapyard if someone doesn't buy it.  I'll let you know.

Cheers, John

[chessie4905]

   The 4104's had three gear ratios available: 3.55, 3.875 and 4.11. The 3.875 is quite rare from what I've found. Approx top speeds @2200 are: 79mph, 73mph, and 69mph. Most coaches had the 4.11's as the 3.55's made starting out on a grade, quite a chore with some clutch slippage to get rolling from a stop. For mostly interstate usage, the 3.55's are great though.

[Runcutter]

Jim, if there's any way you can post a picture of the bus here, we'll be able to identify it. (Depending on where it came from, some of us may have driven it in service).  That may help us give you more ideas to think about.

John, I'd be interested in what you get out of the Prevost.  As you and I discussed, our 4107 is in the same boat -- one way or the other it'll be gone by Christmas.

Arthur 

[jjrbus]

A bunch of years ago an old timer showed me how to check the gear ratio in my bus.

Not as easy as a car but same principle. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QisQfYmN0ng