Old question for skoolie experts out there

[CrabbyMilton]

When I was growing up in the 70's, it seemed that most school bus chassis were INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER/NAVISTAR. While FORD, GM and CHRYSLER offered them, it was about 4 to 1 odds that the chassis would be an IH when you would see one. In the early to mid years of the last century, REO, WHITE, MACK, and STUDEBAKER offered them but even them IH was still the most popular.
So what did IH have that the others didn't have? Better engines? Stronger frame? Better warranty? Better dealer network? The others had their loyal customers but over time, they dropped out of the market but IH/NAVISTAR is still in the game along with the BLUEBIRD VISION and THOMAS C2 and the pimary rivals.

[Jon]

I was a school board president at one time so we bought a lot of school buses for our district. The reason all of our buses, regardless of who made the body were IH because they had the most aggressive pricing and they focused heavily on winning state contracts which was the high volume sales.

It did not hurt that our local IH dealer would frequently assist our mechanics with information and training as well as advising the school board on how to equip or spec the buses. We were at the point when we were switching from gas to diesel and from manual transmissions to automatics so we were seeking guidance. No other dealers, local or otherwise ever accepted our invitations to help us with advice and information.

[CrabbyMilton]

Sounds like the others were good at pitching the product but really didn't want to bother selling it let alone following up. Perhaps they were right just to get out of the skoolie chassis business when they just didn't give a turd in the first place.

[TomC]

When LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District) had to get rid of their fleet of mostly Crown buses and some Gilligs, they went and bought about 45% Bluebird and 55% Thomas rear engine pusher Natural Gas Buses. They all have tinted windows, at least rear air suspension, and air conditioning.
What is interesting, they still have about a half dozen Crowns that they've kept as standby's-especially if they are to be taken on a field trip that natural gas couldn't fill up.
Also, LAUSD's training bus is still a Crown. Just can't kill the royalty. Good Luck, TomC

[opus]

We bought all Bluebird, IH due to having the better engines and bodies. That included gas and then to diesel.

[HB of CJ]

Well, back then there were just schoolies and then there were Crown Supercoaches.  Entirely different level.  Crowns had back then had a 20 year, 200,000 mile guarantee from bumper to bumper, parts and labor, if memory serves.

Most of the parts were lifted right from the heavy truck industry.  No cheap stuff here, you had your choice, when I drove a Crown, from either a diesel Cummins or a diesel Cummins.  Later you could special order a Detroit 671 if 'ya wanted to.

The much earlier Crown Supercoaches gave you a choice of different gasoline engines, again all pancake versions.  All of ours had various Hall Scotts.  I saw a few with other gas types, maybe IH or others.  This was back in 1969.

At that time and before the last Crowns,  all the mills were pancake versions lying on their left sides at 80 degrees, the transmissions were appropriately sized manuals with a few having the older HT series Allison 6 speed auto.  Your choice.

The engines and transmissions were amidships, under the floor.  My regular ride, old Bus #21, was a 1963 Crown Supercoach 40" 3 axle tandem 92 passenger beast with a 220hp 743 Cummins, (sp?) with a Jake and a 5 speed Spicer.

Later replaced with the infamous Fuller RTO910 10 speed manual tranny.  22% faster. We ran the Ridge Route twice daily.  We needed the Jake and 10 speed.  My private 1974 Crown Supercoach 40' 10 wheeler had huge 16.5" brakes?

If memory serves, 8" in the front with the 16K axle and 10" with the tandem drive rear ends.  Small cam 250 Cummins with another 10 speed.  Would do 55mph in either 8th, 9th or 10th gear.  Topped out right at 85 mph.

Crown went broke back in around 1992.  There buses cost at least twice what the "stick and staple" mass produced el cheapo schoolies cost.  The bean counters won in the end.  Then CARB and Kommiefornika finished them off.

Now relics of the past, but like already said, many school districts in CA still have a few Crowns hanging around for special purposes.  I still see a few up here in SW OR during the summer doing special school duty.  Very sad.

HB of CJ (old coot) Crowns Forever Vin 37317   Hit the 'net for more about Crowns.  Cool.

[CrabbyMilton]

It does fly in the face of logic that school districts would rather buy buses that they'll dispose of in 10-15 years than spend more to get a CROWN or GILLIG that will last at least 20-30 years. Just imagine if CROWN was still around and GILLIG still built those beautiful school coaches. Modern powertrain and other components in the classic look of the CROWN. CROWN had a nice looking updated school bus but they went defunct shortly afterward. Too little too late. Oh well we can dream.

[Jon]

Our school district in the snow belt of western NY had to change buses often because corrosion from the salting of roads ate them up.

[bevans6]

It does fly in the face of logic that school districts would rather buy buses that they'll dispose of in 10-15 years than spend more to get a CROWN or GILLIG that will last at least 20-30 years. Just imagine if CROWN was still around and GILLIG still built those beautiful school coaches. Modern powertrain and other components in the classic look of the CROWN. CROWN had a nice looking updated school bus but they went defunct shortly afterward. Too little too late. Oh well we can dream.

Most states have legislation in place that dictates replacement between 12 and 17 years depending on the inspection cycle and type of bus.  I think some places are looking at changing that, I read than NC was looking at 20 years or 250K miles.

Brian

[Iceni John]

It does fly in the face of logic that school districts would rather buy buses that they'll dispose of in 10-15 years than spend more to get a CROWN or GILLIG that will last at least 20-30 years. Just imagine if CROWN was still around and GILLIG still built those beautiful school coaches. Modern powertrain and other components in the classic look of the CROWN. CROWN had a nice looking updated school bus but they went defunct shortly afterward. Too little too late. Oh well we can dream.

That's what I have.   It's the Series 2 Supercoach, with a rear 6V92.   Quite a handsome beast, if I say so myself:  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crown_Supercoach_II.jpg   I think of it as a poor man's MC9  -  it has the same engine and transmission (but bigger and better brakes!) as an MC9, so it drives more like a "real" bus than a typical skoolie.   During the last years that Crown was in business they were making both these newer ones and also their original older ones.   Had G.E. ("We Bring Good Things To Life") not killed off Crown in 1991, we may still be seeing Super 2s or their descendants on the road today.   Too bad.

John

[CrabbyMilton]

Well, I guess you can blame GE all you want and I'll neither say you're right or wrong. If nobody else wanted to buy CROWN, what makes one think anyone could have kept them going? GILLIG is still alive but they dropped their school bus line earlier than CROWN. Sadly, the market for school buses built like tanks wasn't there otherwise another builder would still have one.

[bigred]

I am older I guess than most of the folks on here,but I remember back in the 50's and early 60's we (N.C) used Dodge,Ford,Chevrolet,GMC and a splattering of Federals.You can still buy Ford Chevy and gmc chassis with gas engines but the diesel market is pretty much all Freightliner.I expect that Navistar will pretty much have the market cornered as far as light duty Diesel engines are concerned. They and Cummins are about the only ones left in this market.You have to use DEF fluid in the Cummin's .You don't in the Navistar v-8 and I just can't see these school systems wanting to fool with the DEF.What with the high upkeep and the price of diesel fuel,I would not be surprised to hear that some school systems may be going back to gas.It really makes no sense for these strapped for cash school systems to keep using diesels with no more miles than they put on these things. 

[Jon]

It is often not the miles, but how the state aid formulas work. Under our program of retiring buses the state paid 90% of the cost of the bus so it made more sense to buy new ones than to fight with maintenance on the older ones.

[belfert]

Did Crown warranty against rust in northern states?  Many school districts in Minnesota contract with private operators for school bus service.  Private operators typically replace buses on their own schedule although contracts may specify a maximum age for buses.  School buses seem to be bought and sold among private operators as contracts change hands.  The operator who loses a few contracts may sell off buses to the company that won the contract.

[Jeremy]

Did Crown warranty against rust in northern states?  Many school districts in Minnesota contract with private operators for school bus service.  Private operators typically replace buses on their own schedule although contracts may specify a maximum age for buses.  School buses seem to be bought and sold among private operators as contracts change hands.  The operator who loses a few contracts may sell off buses to the company that won the contract.

That's exactly how it happens here - you very often see buses, or even fleets of buses for sale 'Due to loss of contract'. I've always imagined that the buses often get recycled to whoever the new contractor is, with the maintenace schedule reduced each time no doubt.

We don't have dedicated school buses here incidentally - just regular buses with 5 seats per row rather than 4

Jeremy