What are best dimensions for bus garage with 2000 sq ft? What size door?

[belfert]

I asked about a variance or conditional use permit and that is when the building official said he would do some more checking on height and get back to me.  The neighboring property has a HUGE pole building probably at least 40x50 and really tall.  I'm certain it is taller than the house.  It was built before the city zoning rules changed to limit height of such buildings.  I originally thought due to the odd shape of the property that the pole building was part of this property.

I'll have to ask about the cupola thing, but it wouldn't work all that great with a hip roof.

There are other large garages built in the city since the rules changed.  One house I looked at had a 40x40 attached garage, but the garage wasn't quite tall enough.  The front elevation of the house is two stories so the garage is the same height as the house.  I wanted to buy this one, but it sold a week before I was ready to buy.

[David Anderson]

Here is my 2000sqft shop thread:

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=24831.0

I spent $35k on it of which $3k was for permitting and utility taps.  My only disappointment is the $1k I spent on the floor sealer is crap and all coming up. 

Good luck dealing with the code nazis.  That is the worst part about building anything these days.

[luvrbus]

May not be the sealer David if you sprayed it before it completely cured it will lift from the moisture in the concrete BTDT on a 195,000 sq ft lol a very expensive lesson 

[belfert]

There are cities that are less restrictive about outbuildings, but they are far from downtown Minneapolis.  The city I have been looking at houses in is 25 to 29 miles from work.  I live 13 miles from work today.  Other cities that are less restrictive about outbuildings are between 30 and 45 miles from work.  It isn't the number of miles so much as the time taken up by driving and the fuel costs.  Our traffic gets worse every year.  To go the first ten miles can take more than 30 minutes during rush hour.  The cost of gas is an issue too.  It will go up at some point in my lifetime.  Also, I almost certainly won't have the same job forever and a new job could be on the other side of the metro area.

The issue of driving on a snow day is even more of a concern.  It can take me an hour to get to/from work on a snow day now.  My boss lives 30 miles from work and he has had commutes of 3+ hours on a snow day.  One thing I often do on a snow day is work late to avoid hours in traffic, but then I basically get home and have little time before bed and work again the next day.  My company highly discourages working from home even though I could do almost everything from home.

I really want a one story house for my next house, but in the city I am looking in now that greatly limits the height of a garage for a bus.  There are very few two story houses for sale in the price range I want to stay in.  i want one story so I hopefully never have to move again as I age.  Two story houses are the reason a lot of folks move as they get into their 60s and 70s and can't easily climb the stairs.  I've considered a home elevator for the future, but the cost is way more than I want to spend.

[akroyaleagle]

I caution you to think this through carefully.

I personally like 40' X 50'. I just think it looks better. Hard to say though because we don't know what the place looks like now. You can drive the coach in and back it out. If you have to, you could open the door for access to the engine. That will work better for exhaust also.

14' X 14' door is ideal with another double door for your other vehicles. Make the second door high enough to get future trailers and what not in.
You never know what you might own someday.

These buildings are very expensive in our area if they are insulated enough and made of attractive materials to withstand the snow load and the wind.
At 40' wide the height may be excessive for your codes depending on the roof pitch.

The cement work for a building that size may approach $50K!

Far better since you are looking anyway is to find a place with the building already on it. Even if you have to build or remodel the home.
How much longer would you need to commute? I don't know where in the Minneapolis area you live but is public transit a possibility on weather days?

I've been through this. I remodeled the existing home. We've owned it since '96.
I was then going to build the shop. After getting estimates on the cement work I have ruled that out.

I am 67. In 10 years I will be 77. How long would I realistically be able to use the shop?

I don't know how strict the codes are where you are looking. Here it seems a variance is nearly automatic for anything if you pay the fee.

I don't live in the city limits but they think I have to get permits from them. "That's the way it has always been."

I pay almost no attention to them. I don't flaunt it but I let them know I know that I live in the County and my deed has no restrictions
except trailer houses.

Do all your homework!

Good Luck,

[belfert]

Public transit is basically non-existent past about 18 to 20 miles from Downtown Minneapolis.  My employer will be moving in a year and we will lose our cheap parking.  Parking goes from $45 a month to close to $200 a month.  I will probably need to drive to a park and ride and take a bus from there once my employer moves.  Buses get stuck in traffic too when it snows.  Buses use the shoulder on the freeways when it is nice, but during a snowstorm the shoulder is often plugged with snow and can't be used.

I had gotten a price for building a 40x50 garage in 2007 or 2008 and the price was $35,000 back then.  I am hoping to meet with that builder yet today to see where the price would be today.  That was just a basic stick frame structure with floor, doors/windows, and siding.

I would like to find a house with an existing building, but they are few and far between.  I looked at one house with a 40x50 building, but it was only 12 feet tall inside.

[dukegrad98]

My employer will be moving in a year and we will lose our cheap parking.  Parking goes from $45 a month to close to $200 a month.

If it makes you feel any better, I lived in Boston *ten years ago* and my parking was $43/day.  Yep, per day.  I'll save you the math and tell you that if I took an occasional Saturday or Sunday off (a rarity), parking was about $1200/mo.  I enjoyed that city but sure don't miss the costs.

Cheers, John

[luvrbus]

One important item about building a shop in a cold weather area you keep the roof as low as possible for heating,hot weather were I live you want the roof as high as possible the codes will allow mine are 18 ft   

[belfert]

The codes here allow the total height of the garage to be either 25 feet or the same height as the front elevation of the house, whichever is less.  In this case the total height of the house is probably 15 feet tall at the most at the peak.  The reality is the house would probably need to be a two story to be tall enough.  There are no two story houses I can afford and I don't want a two story house anyhow.

With a 15 foot sidewall for a building that is 40 feet wide the building would be almost 22 feet tall at the peak.  I might be able to use 12 foot walls and scissors trusses or similar to have enough room at the center of the building.  I have been in a 40 foot wide garage that did this with 10 foot sidewalls and was able to have a 12 foot door in the center.

I'm pretty close to just giving up and finding a house closer in where I can park the bus outside just like I do today.

[wg4t50]

Appears your choices are very limited with the house at 15' high, so seems a flat roof garage or excavate the driveway down a few feet and drive straight into a lower floor so you could have an acceptable building. Either way, a 2000 sg ft bldg. seems cramped to me.
My opinion of course,  as I am spoiled with the normal commercial building 40 X 60
with 14X14 doors.  Actually it is my man cave/shop/garage/hangout.  DW always knows where I am.
For me, by the time I could afford such a hangout, I got too old to properly enjoy it.
Dave M

[belfert]

City says I have to have a 4/12 pitch roof.  It is unclear if building into a hillside would help or not.  The height is probably going to be counted as the front elevation no matter if built into a hill or not.

I am probably going to stop by city hall tomorrow and get the regulations for garages in writing since I am not getting a straight answer over the phone.

[belfert]

I read the city zoning code and it doesn't say anything about garages other than a 2000 square foot size limit.  A 5+ acre lot can have an accessory structure up to 1,800 square feet in addition to a garage.  The interesting thing is city code says nothing about any height restrictions on an accessory building if the lot is over 5 acres.  The lot I am looking at is 5.09 acres.  Pole buildings are allowed on 5+ acres too.

I am going to go over to city hall today and get the garage rules in writing.  Maybe I'll be lucky and the same rules for 5+ acre lots also apply to a garage.

[wg4t50]

I had a similar problem with lack of clarity in the written regs, so being a nice guy, I went to talk about my concern about building a 150' ham radio tower on our 5 acre place, well was told if it is not in the regs, it was up to the county administrator to decide, he was not in yet, so I thanked them, went hone and built the 150' + 16' mast out the top. My tower was not Going to be determined by his mood, dog bite, DW treatment of him etc.
Only comment was the inspector said about 10 yrs later, we must get great TV reception.  TV & flag poles are exempt, sure do was the response.   
Dave M

[belfert]

I am sure there must be written regulations on garages.  I just haven't seen them which is why I'll go to city hall later today.

I might just go the accessory building route as I can have 1,800 square feet if the neighbors all agree.  (1,200 feet otherwise)  An accessory building can also be a pole building with steel siding since I'm over 5 acres.  The big killer is the need for a concrete or asphalt driveway.  I can sign a driveway waiver, but the waiver states I would not make more than one round trip to/from the building every month.

[wg4t50]

I might think of providing a set of plans for the 2000 sqft bldg, when approved built it slightly larger, doubt they will take a tape measure to it having been approved.  Just my opinion considering. 99% of the inspectors are failures in the real world, why work for the govt as inspectors.

Dave M