AFCI - Arc Fault Current Interrupt - Good Idea or No?

[Midwilshire]

We're buying the electrical components for the 120 volt system soon.  I've been a bit worried that years down the road one of the many wires could break and start arcing, causing a fire.  I see that the NEC appears to require AFCI breakers on bedroom runs.  And as of 1 Jan 2014, any time an outlet is replaced in a bedroom, the associated breaker has to be upgraded to AFCI as well.  Does anyone have an opinion on whether the breakers in a bus conversion should be AFCI? 

The other thought was to run standard breakers and upgrade in a few years when the technology improves.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[gumpy]

The only place I would consider using them is in the bathroom / shower area, kitchen sink area, or in the bays.  That being said, I have yet to put one in my bus, though I'm not done
with all my electric.

[belfert]

Why use Arc Fault in wet areas?  Wouldn't you typically want GFI protection there?  I have GFI on my bathroom outlet and I don't have a kitchen yet.  Kitchen will probably not have a sink anyhow.

[bevans6]

Yet another thing to worry about.  AFCI breakers are now (as of 2014 NEC) required just about everywhere there is an "outlet", outlet being defined as a circuit termination that provides power to a load.  That includes lights, fire/smoke/CO2 detectors, receptacles anywhere in a home.  They are designed to detect a situation that could cause a fire.  GFCI is not an either/or, they can be required in addition to AFCI in the typical wet areas we are familiar with, three feet from a water source, etc.  You would typically use an AFCI breaker in the box with a GFCI outlet.  I haven't seen these showing up in home store outlets yet, but they have been required starting in 2002 for some applications.  2014 NEC makes them mandatory everywhere, if your location includes that in your local code.  No idea about RV requirements following NEC.

Brian

[belfert]

I'm unclear what problem AFCIs are trying to prevent.  A short will trip a breaker.  One example I have read about is a drywall screw hitting a wire, but not shorting it.  Supposedly that could cause an arc somehow that could burn down the house.  It seems to me all this does is raise the price of a new house by a few hundred dollars.

Most changes to the NEC seem to be reactions to electrical fires in older homes.  A home built to current codes (pre AFCI) is highly unlikely to suffer an electrical fire.  Homes built in the 5s0 or 60s or earlier are more likely to suffer an electrical fire, especially when homeowners do their own shoddy work, or they put in bigger fuses and overload circuits.

[Lee Bradley]

The hows and whys of AFCIs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter

[belfert]

I understand why AFCIs might be needed for outlets due to issues with bad/broken cords arcing, but I have no idea why pretty much every circuit in a house needs them now.

[eagle19952]

Seems to me they were mandated because people will put a piece of furniture, bed/headboard anywhere without a thought, And after a few years of doing the horizontal rhumba....well that cord behind the headboard is what's causing the sizzle....

If the runs are arcing you have a bigger problem.

[gumpy]

Ok, so I guess I didn't understand what it was and was thinking of GFCI. 

So, I'll revise my answer.

No, I don't have them in my bus.

No, I won't be putting them in my bus.

[chessie4905]

   The people that get paid to write the electrical code need to make changes to justify their jobs, including making constant changes that require the printing of new regulations manuals  for contractors to buy to replace their "obsolete" ones. It never ends. Eventually the whole house will require GFCI , and AFCI protection, then they will come up with something else. Just like the regulations with automobiles; safety and emissions. No wonder cars and houses keep getting more unaffordable.

[eagle19952]

IIRC The first arc fault lawsuit started at the NO-TELL MOTEL....

[David Anderson]

I understand why AFCIs might be needed for outlets due to issues with bad/broken cords arcing, but I have no idea why pretty much every circuit in a house needs them now.

Think about who lobbies the NFPA and its NEC code making wonks.  Those companies making the $33 AFCI breakers have much to gain by having them required on every circuit.  I follow the electric contractor's forum often and most of the licensed electricians hate them because of constant nuisance trips.  However, some electricians love them for the chargeable callbacks they get because of constant nuisance trips.  

My son just wired his new house.  It's in the county so no inspections.  The 2011 code was in effect when he started.  Here is the requirement from the 2011 NEC:

ARC FAULT

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in
dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms,
parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation
rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall
be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter,
combination-type, installed to provide protection of the
branch circuit.

He ran every required AFCI required circuit where when he ever sells his house, he can remove the regular breakers and install an AFCI which will make it comply with the 2011 code.  I think there were 9 circuits that should have AFCI.  

The risk just did not outweigh the extra cost and aggravation of all the future nuisance trips.  Of course if he was in town and had to deal with an inspector, it could not go this way.   Living away from the bureaucracy has its advantages.

The 2014 code requires them just about everywhere.  A regular breaker is $3 so a 32 circuit panel just went up about $900.

If I had the choice I'd not install them.  You do what you feel safe with.

[belfert]

My son just wired his new house.  It's in the county so no inspections.  The 2011 code was in effect when he started.  Here is the requirement from the 2011 NEC:

Where does he live that require no inspections at all?  I'm not sure there is anywhere in the state of Minnesota with no inspections required these days.

The only reason I would install AFCIs is because code requires them and I would have to pass inspection.  They will probably go down in price just like GFCIs over time.  My parent's house has a single GFCI for the entire house because wire was cheaper than GFCIs in 1979.  It does the bathrooms, garage door opener, and outside outlets on a single circuit.  I don't think GFCI was required for kitchens then and I don't know if my parents even have them in the kitchen today.

[gus]

Anything that will keep my bus/house from burning down when a mouse chews my wiring sounds good to me!! I'll replace any failed CBs with them for sure.

[David Anderson]

Where does he live that require no inspections at all?  I'm not sure there is anywhere in the state of Minnesota with no inspections required these days.

The only reason I would install AFCIs is because code requires them and I would have to pass inspection.  They will probably go down in price just like GFCIs over time.  My parent's house has a single GFCI for the entire house because wire was cheaper than GFCIs in 1979.  It does the bathrooms, garage door opener, and outside outlets on a single circuit.  I don't think GFCI was required for kitchens then and I don't know if my parents even have them in the kitchen today.

It's in Texas in a small county that cannot afford to have a rural code compliance officer.  Yes, we knew it wouldn't pass code if it had to be inspected, but if he sells the house and a prebuy inspection is done he can disclose the arc fault deficiency or pony up and add the breakers.  Lack of AFCI breakers wouldn't make me not buy a house or (your bus).

Back to the original poster's question, if he wants them in his coach it's his choice.  I just choose no.  I've had the coach 14 years, and I don't think I've ever popped a breaker.  As for mice, all my 120v wiring is in conduit,  no chewables available.