A Few Questions on Propane Distribution and Safety

[Midwilshire]

We're finally ready to run the propane distribution in our bus.  We have a heater and cooktop on the drivers side, and in the rear bay on the passenger side, we have the tank storage compartment and a quick coupler for a grill.  Each appliance gets a ball valve.  I've read through the archives of this site and still have a few questions.

1.  Should  I run 3/8" flexible copper pipe for the whole system, or should I run black pipe for the majority of it and simply run copper the last few feet to the appliances? 

2.  If I run copper the whole way, is it overkill to shroud vulnerable parts in PVC so we don't nick a line when loading things in the bays? 

3.  If I run black pipe, is yellow tape superior to pipe dope or vice versa?

4.  Does the black pipe / copper need to be bonded to ground, like in a house?

5.  I plan to close the tank valves whenever we're not physically present at the bus and close the ball valves when we sleep.  Do we still need an automatic shutoff solenoid?

6.  I want to put in a CO/LP detector in the living quarters.  But since CO rises and LP sinks, where do you mount the combined detector?

Thanks everyone,

Mike

[Iceni John]

Instead of copper or black iron pipe, another option that may be easier within the tight spaces in a bus is to use CSST (corrugated stainless steel tube).   I'm using Pro-Flex 1/2" flexible CSST and fittings, and it can be easily bent to go wherever you want.   For safety I run it inside 3/4" EMT conduit or the special Pro-Flex protection sleeve (it looks like spiral-wound metal conduit but is much more flexible) wherever there's any possibility of something touching it.   From the 5-branch distribution manifold I run unbroken lengths of CSST to each appliance to minimize the number of connections  -  the manifold is in an area open to the ground, so any leaks won't be disastrous.   I also use gas-rated quick-connects and 1/4-turn valves for the 1/2" CSST to the generator and for the high-pressure 1/4" hose for unregulated LPG to a grill;  the 1/4" hose also runs inside 3/4" EMT.

John

[bevans6]

First, I don't know the actual rules for propane distribution.

Second, the camper that I own that was built by a manufacturer to compliance with the rules uses copper to a distribution block which is located outside the camper (in a recess on the underside so both protected and in open air) and copper to the appliances. 

Third, what I did is have all of my propane using appliances above one bay, use a distribution block in that bay with flexible rubber hoses to each appliance, each with a gas certified cut-off valve.  The hoses are the ones specifically made for propane distribution.  I don't know if this meets the rules or not.

Brian

[belfert]

Manufacturers used the cheapest method that will meet code.  I have no idea if CSST is code approved for RVs or not.  Some materials are simply not in the code because nobody ever did whatever it takes to get the material code approved.  Marine wire is not code approved for RVs.  Probably no reason it couldn't be approved, but nobody has done the legwork to get it approved likely because no manufacturer would pay extra for marine wire.

Menards has seminars to explain how to work with CSST fairly regularly.  I believe contractors that want to use CSST have to be trained on it.  I was going to use CSST in my bus before I decided against using propane.

[luvrbus]

I haven't saw the CSST or copper used in RV's in several years now about all I see is iron pipe to the manifold and the cloth covered silicone hose ran to everything that hose is not cheap I paid 80 bucks for 4 ft with the connections at a propane dealer
People do strange things a friend came by one time said he had a propane leak his stove had pilot lights for the burners and oven as he used a house type stove his smell was because he blew the pilot lite out because they were making heat that annoyed him   

[Dave5Cs]

We ran Iron pipe at the side against ceiling of bays and then cam off that with flexible SS gas line , with a gas 1/4 turn shut off at each appliance. I use yellow gas pipe dope, but you can use the yellow gas tape also.

Dave

[DMoedave]

my vote is black iron pipe and secured every two feet, pipe dope and flexible rubber hose to appliance last 2' for vibration. Copper is a no go in my opinion.
The csst would be a no go as well for me. It could get punctured or crushed easier than copper and the mechanical fittings are a pain and expensive. We have used it in houses but now it has to be electrically bonded by code here. I disassembled a hot water heater flex hose connection (a no no) recently and you could see the arcing carbon mark where some current had jumped from hose to fitting!!!!

That said you will have to check the RV codes  as I have never seen any bonding on  RV propane. We have a furnace and cooktop.  Not a fan of the hotwater heaters with a standing pilot so we have an heat exchanger unit with electric backup.

As for the co2 and propane detector down low is the way to go. Smoke detectors up high. Do some real research on all these questions you have as it is VERY important.

[belfert]

My research on CO detectors is that they do not need to be mounted low.  Kidde actually recommends installing the ones with a digital readout at eye level.  The theory is that most CO incidents happen during heating season and the warm air will cause CO to rise all the way to the ceiling.

In my house all of my smoke detectors also detect CO.  I also have two CO detectors with digital readout mounted down low just in case.  In the bus I have a battery powered CO detector mounted about 2 feet off the floor.

[gumpy]

I used CSST. Very easy to install. Not cheap, but the time and convenience factor makes up for the added cost.

I used black iron to go through the floor, and either copper or rubber gas line to the stove (I don't recall which, but either will work).

http://www.gumpydog.com/Bus/MC9_WIP/Propane_Distribution/propane_distribution.htm

[TomC]

I have a 20gal chassis mounted tank. From the tank is the solenoid shut off valve, two stage regulator, copper flex to black pipe directly up to both the stove and furnace. I have a gauge and switch in the kitchen for the shut off solenoid on the tank. The tank is only turned on when propane is needed. Course on a cold night, that means it is on all the time for the furnace-but do have a CO detector. Good Luck, TomC

[boogiethecat]

I like to use black iron pipe.  One trick a pro told me, which makes plenty of sense, is when you do the turns ie a 90, use TWO elbows instead of one... ie instead of just making a right hand turn 90 with a single elbow, use one to go down and the second (a street ell) to turn that to the right.  That way the 90 is flexible in all directions and if your bus frame bends, the joint threads may turn a tiny bit but but no torque will be put on the pipe, keeping it from fatiguing in case its in an area that wiggles a lot.  Also this makes it really easy to aim the pipes into places that are not exactly 90 degrees, because of the two elbows the end angle can be anything you choose.

     ________
                   ]_________