Build a bus from scratch

[LexNZ]

I live in New Zealand, And we have a lot of Japanese buses hear that have low ceilings, and built from effectively a truck chassis and that's not good for my head. The 2nd point is we have a bear weight capacity of 4.5 tons and full weight capacity of six tons for a standard driver's licence. It's not easy to get woman to get a truck drivers licence and fees are not cost realy effective.

   Most cars use the body as a chassis and some English busses do so too and at the same time this sort of bus is never sold 2nd hand unless at big prices. Building my self gives me a 2.4 meter wide bus with the height I need and the potential for more length than using a standard 2nd hand bus. I'm thinking of using a rear mounted Isuzu with a bed installed over it and kitchen behind the driver's seat.

   I'm a fitter by trade and thinking about building a bus from scratch. But before so advice please, and I expect cost is not in my favour I know. But I want to build as a labour of passion for myself.

Twin rear wheels
Independent front suspension
Built from aluminium 45mm x 45mm x 2mm RHS


I'm thinking
1/ normally If I brought a Bus in New Zealand I'm limited to a 35 seater because of weight limits on a standard driver's licence.
2/ A independent front suspension (maybe that lowers when I park up) and easy to drive. That means 6 div 3 = 2 ton ratting. Can someone advise me of a 2nd hand bus or truck model that I'm likely to find and preferred to be in product if at all possible.
3/ Thinking of using a standard Isuzu engine because they have such a good name in NZ.
4/ An aluminium chassis in the wall of the bus would be light. Evenly spaced aluminium horizontal I beam layout under the flour would support a ply walk area. I have issues to consider like racking like if weight was mainly on diagonal wheels. Effectively the chassis is like a large RHS that I have never built that big before.
5/ The front wheels would be in the kitchen and distributing weight from the walls to the independent suspension will add a lot of support material under the floor, but should give a good walk ally to the front.
Please only comment if you have experience. Opinions without experience is irritating to this cause.     

[wdtjawshwdt]

Can you show us a picture of a bus that might be suitable?

[rusty]

A bus can be built from scratch, but it is not for the faint of heart. An engineer in the town next to me did it but got the thing to heavy. I don't think he ever finished it. I am in the process of rebuilding an Eagle 15. With the modifications I made there is only about 20 % of the original bus left. I have had it all together once now I am taking it apart and painting it and putting together for the last time. The original bus was built in a jig and thats what held it straight. To stick build it it will be hard to keep it straight. That is the biggest problem you will have. ZF has a lot of parts that can be used to build the front end and drive train. I used all Eagle parts except the tag axle that is a truck axle. The Eagle front end is independent but it does not have caster adjustment.I rebuilt the front end to have caster adjustment. That took about 1 year just to do that. I have 7 years in my bus. That is working nights and weekends. That is about 3 and a half years of full time work to get to were I am at. You would be better of to start with a bus then to build one from scratch.

Wayne

[rgrauto]

Have you thought about using a Ford e450 diesel shuttle bus?  I was thinking the large one with the tag axle, lot of head room,lots of parts,new and used and unlike some of our buses not decades old.  Just a thought.

[belfert]

Considering the vast majority of posters here don't live in New Zealand you're not likely to find anyone with actual first hand experience with what is available in New Zealand.

[bobofthenorth]

I don't know how it works on the other side of the world but the big problem with a scratch built vehicle in North America is getting a registration for it.  That's why so many people will essentially prop up the serial number plate and build a vehicle around it.  That way they can call it a rebuild rather than a new build.

[Scott & Heather]

We didn't exactly build one from scratch, but it went from this:




To this:





To finally, this:

[TomC]

I'm building a truck based motorhome. It is based on a 3axle 1985 Kenworth Aerodyne cabover. But-it is way over the weight of what you want. Just the chassis is 18,000lbs. I had a 32ft box built with 1.5" square tubing with 1/8" walls welded on 18" centers. The box alone is 10,000lbs. So even before starting to convert, I'm at 28,000lbs. I figure it will be around 32,000lbs when done, and with the car inside the garage in the back around 35,000lbs. Considering this was my truck I used when driving cross country, the rig was 46,000lbs empty with sometimes up to 80,000lbs total, so at 35,000lbs even pulling a 10,000lb boat, will hardly be taxing the power train. Good luck, TomC

[Iceni John]

There's a strong tradition of building housetrucks in NZ, including some smaller ones on non-HGV Isuzu chassis.   Are there any local clubs or organizations that can help you  -  any info you get from here will probably be irrelevant to your needs.   Isn't the Nomadicista forum NZ-based?   There are some threads there that may be useful to you.

John

[shelled]

LexNZ,

I can't find the URL in my bookmarks, but there is an interesting blog by an Aussie lady's experiences with a couple of conversions in OZ and in NZ.  She referred to them as 'vans' which made them harder to find.  One I remember was built on a small Japanese bus.

More to the point, I own an UltraVan, which is built exactly as your posting describes.  It weighs little more than 3000 pounds.  There is a Corvair engine, automatic transmission and modified Corvair suspension in the rear.  In the middle, the (more or less) full width tanks for fuel, fresh, grey and black water serve as monocoque frame members.  In the front is a custom built independent suspension to get high turn angles for the front wheels.  There is a wealth of information on UltraVans on the Internet.

All that said, if I were starting from scratch, I wouls use the Saburu drive train and as much of the Saburu suspension (both front and rear) as possible in a front drive configuration using a layout based on the first Clark Cortez motorhomes of about 1966.  Again, there is a lot of information and forums for these on the Internet.

So, that's what I would do based on personal experience to get a buildable coach in the weight range posited -- UltraVan construction, Cortez layout, Saburu drivetrain.

HTH,

e3

[LexNZ]

Ok I get some very good points

1/ weight is God to the project
2/ Jigs are a good thing
3/ i'm not faint hearted, I just want to plan well

Thanks
rusty thanks I will take note

rgrauto I have never seen a ford E450 in NZ

belfert  thats why I'm asking hear on this forum

bobofthenorth I will check with my local athrorities

Scott Bennett but I'm not doing that, but your workmanship looks good from pics

TomC Thanks, I guess you have built out of steel. The idea of Artic's appeals to me in a smaller version because you have a road vehicle that also pulls your home. I wish you said more about the details.

Iceni John  I will have a look

shelled  Saburu is toy stuff sorry

[Seangie]

Lex -  I know you said you are trying to stay away from a truck chassis but a box truck is a nice palette for designing from scratch. I've seen some real nice trucks here in the US that have stand up doorways to the back from the drivers area.

-Sean

Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org

[Jeremy]

I don't know if this is anything like the sort of thing you're envisaging, but it would seem to tick most of the boxes:



This is a converted Toyota Optimo midibus which (here in the UK at least) are very common and dirt-cheap to buy. Mitsubishi and Toyota have similar products, but this type of Toyota seems to be particularly popular. (I did just do a search for an equivalent Izuzu, but couldn't find anything).

I'm not sure of the weight of the Toyota but it can't be very heavy. I'm not entirely sure whether or not it's monocoque either, but they quote 6'4" headroom, which is what matters. The mechanicals are apparently the same as the 3.4 litre diesel Landcruisers.

Other thoughts would be to try to find another 'coachbuilt' vehicle locally that wasn't a bus - perhaps an ambulance, horsebox, refrigerated truck etc - perhaps available cheaply and qualifying as largish yet relatively lightweight and suitable for conversion for passenger use.

Jeremy

[Lin]

What do they use there in NZ for school buses?

[lvmci]

NZ, airport shuttles and rental car shuttles, and schoolies as Lin mentioned, have all been prequalified for your road travel, met a nice rv tourist in southern California,  who has a mci7 I n Australia,  who reads the forums,  are your country's and Australias rules of the road the same? There might be other options available over there,  if the cost of shipping is within your budget,, there was also the Eurocoachs, an rv/bus/shuttle 29 to 35 feet, many are now coming up for sale from the 1990s to early 2000s, here in the US maybe in your country also, lvmci...