Homebuilt Vs Factory built??

[muldoonman]

The owner of my 1991 Prevost had passed many years ago and converter had long since quit converting also.  On top of that, the coach had sit in a climate controlled bus barn for about 7 or 8 years without seeing the light of day. When i got it fired up and rolled out the thing looked like it rolled of the assembly line. Just over 50,000 miles on it. Looked like a brand new one, Inside and out. That's when the fun started. No manuals or instructions on nutting. Did have all original Prevost data and schematics .Started figuring out systems and after going on 3 years still finding buttons and switches that go somewhere. Couldn't have got to where I am without a valuble little fella that posts of here from time to time. Justin Griffith has a working knowledge on these puppies for a young guy, and has helped me immensely from Ac's to electrical. I hope he doesn't read this about tooting his horn cause he's so dang cheap on repairs. If and when I sell it will try to help with instructing new owners on bus but wont feel bad when they crash and burn like I did on this one.LOL!

[wg4t50]

Yes, I am grinning again, Having been thru the MC7 from zero to having a great driving easy and comfy living, every nut, bolt, gear, seal, brake, axle, transmission, and 3 DDC babe's, and knowing every part of the entire assemble, when I decided to sell it and purchased a store bought Foretravel with all the fancy things, like the Aqua Hot, Allison 4000MHR, 3.91 rear, ISM500.  The big difference, I have had it now for over 6 years and am still finding new things about it.  Nice to call the factory and ask a question, they have all the answers, parts, wiring diagrams etc.  Nice to get old/experienced and let others worry about the detail. hahaha, Life is great.
Dave M

[Geoff]

Geoff will testfy:

The worst bus conversion you can buy used is one that was converted by an engineer.

--Geoff

[usbusin]

Well, thanks, Geoff.  I really appreciate that as an engineer.  Glad you didn't buy my conversion.  By your standards it was the worst. 

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I thought that was an odd comment too. But if you mean that some engineers only consider functionality to be important - with no consideration for appearance or aesthetics - then I get it.

Jeremy

[Oonrahnjay]

Geoff will testfy:

The worst bus conversion you can buy used is one that was converted by an engineer.

--Geoff 

       And a good engineer will understand the meaning of the term "overengineered".  (Probably won't do anything about it, but will understand it!)

[wg4t50]

Jeez! I understand Geoff's point of view, I work with some dim bulb self appointed genius engineers who are lost away from their profession, and some times within their profession.  Way too many examples to list in one day.
Always nice when you can get one of em to see the light, you would think they discovered something new.
So, Geoff, I know where your coming from, all engineers are not in that camp, but way too many are.  Mostly the ones who think "if your not an engineer, you could not have a worth while thought"  ya gotta love those meat heads.
Dave M

[Geoff]

My comment was intended to say that engineers over complicate systems that could be a lot simpler, making the conversion a PIA to fix when something goes wrong.  Of course that is a general observation that I have made, it is not about all engineers.  My son is an engineer.  When I offer to show him how I converted my bus he has the attitude that since he is an engineer he can figure anything out.  I don't know about that.

--Geoff

[luvrbus]

There has been several engineers on the boards over the years that used common sense in converting a bus Dave Galey is a household name on converting

My son is a civil engineer in Ok I can relate to a little of Geoff comments but hey guys you drive the buses and drive on the highways and bridges they design


I know of not one aspect of life a engineer doesn't play some part in our daily life's so I am not to hard on the guys myself,except the new breed of electrical engineers that bunch is making life complicated for me when a DDEC trouble shooting manual has over 600 pages you don't understand to start with


good luck     

[dukegrad98]

Gee whiz, Bob, no need to get your shorts in a knot just because I'm having a lot of issues getting my rebuild of your old project finished.  I freely admit that a lot of the problems are on me, and even more of them are on the shoulders of an incompetent contractor that quit on me half way through the job.  At this point, ever getting it finished is in serious question -- but how is that on you?  It is not.  For the rest of the readers, there's really no drama here at all.  Bob and I haven't spoken in years.  If he felt that he was taking "jabs" over his project, he could have contacted me, but did not.  I stand by whatever I have posted, and whatever issues I am having.

Bob has a good reputation around here.  Still, I made a key mistake -- I bought based only upon a handful of low-res pictures without an inspection or test drive.  Yep, my fault, and an expensive lesson.  I own that.  This is the first I have ever heard about the behavior of the father-son team that I sent to pick up the coach upon purchase, but given what I have since learned about the son, it comes as no surprise.  Bob -- if you want to bash them, get in line because I go first! 

I suppose I should have realized that the floor plan had major issues, but I originally knew I would be replacing a lot of that anyway.  (Please, Bob, tell me you can laugh about a fridge that won't open when it hits the island while the slide is in!  You don't have to be an architect to chuckle at that.  I knew upfront that an island layout wasn't what I would do.)  I wasn't expecting a rotten subfloor, but hey, that's easily replaced.  Leaks happen, and a spongy floor is pretty obvious.  Redesigning and rebuilding the bathroom is less easy, but the parts are all there and waiting on a motivated installer -- new shower pan, surround, sink, toilet, vanity cabinet, and more.  The bedroom and kitchen have solid cherry cabinetry worthy of a custom home now, but it probably shouldn't have been done until some more serious mechanicals were shaken out like wiring and plumbing -- again, on the original contractor, not on Bob.  All house wiring has been replaced to code.  New DC house lighting wires still need to be run, but a thousand bucks worth of LED pucks and strips are there and waiting along with voltage converters to run them.

Really all I can do is assure Bob that his seller's remorse is a far lighter burden (certainly financially -- but mentally, too) than my buyer's remorse.  Those of you following my other recent thread can see that I am looking at moving (or towing) the coach to another (more experienced) guy to see if it can finally be finished.  Then I can make the decision whether to use it or sell it.  Bob likes to throw stones at people who contract out a job rather than do it themselves -- we're just checkbook builders, right?  We've all heard that before.  There's obviously a lot more to the analysis.  I'm not retired, and I earn ten or twenty times an hour more than what I pay someone else to do this kind of work for me.  Just as most of you would not be your own doctor or lawyer, I am smart enough not to be my own electrician or plumber.  I would be brain-damaged to try to learn specialized skills when I can pay an expert to do the job right and know that it will be safe when completed.  I've got nothing to prove in that regard!  (Plus, no extension-cord wiring here!  I recall that conversation.)

On the other hand...a good economist knows you can't look at sunk costs in a vacuum, and sometimes you just have to know when to pull the plug -- the financially sound thing to do is just scrap it now.  I'm pretty preoccupied with the design and construction of a new ranch home that will take most of a year to complete.  If anyone here is in the mood for a project that is the victim of the 80/20 rule during a rebuild, feel free to shoot me a PM or something.  I'd probably give you $75k worth of coach for $25k -- well less than I paid Bob, and including a collection of new parts comprising multiple new tanks, pumps, wiring, four leather recliners with integrated three-point seat belts, and more.  Are we allowed to post projects for sale around this board or do I have to ebay it?  Don't want to step on anyone's toes about the rules. 

And I'll close by saying there really are not any hard feelings toward Bob; too bad he feels differently and needed to air it out here.  There are plenty of frustrations with the project, and I daresay most of you know what that feels like.  (Having read the responses so far, it seems I have exactly repeated luvrbus's MCI 5 experience!)  Lessons learned, folks...we've all got some lessons learned. 

Cheers, John

[robertglines1]

Well said and respected John!  Communication  was lost here--  I should have given you more feed back.. good speed!   Bob

[TomC]

One of the main reasons I converted my bus instead of having it done "professionally" is I've seen too many cluster f___s that were called professional wiring. My bus has been functional now for almost 20yrs with very little that has gone wrong on my side of the conversion. As to the mechanics of the bus-I finally just had everything overhauled. Good Luck, TomC

[CrabbyMilton]

I'll have to keep checking MCI's website to see if they put it in their brochure. We'll see if PREVOST and VAN-HOOL offer it too.

[CrabbyMilton]

Sorry guys. I accidently posted in the wrong thread.

[B_K]

John,
Great post!

Bob, Just as good a post!

I see both sides of the coin here.
Knowing Bob and the coach in question, (I and everyone I know of that saw it loved the center isle) I can say I see where Bob could have misread some of the comments to be toward him or his work.

I know without John's better explanation of things his last post I sorta saw things somewhat that way.

But I also know Bob & Judy were both extremely happy with the bus and was even told by them once "we might just keep it around for the kids to use when they want too."

After all the only reason Bob built the 45'er is because Judy surprised him and told him to go ahead an buy it! (at a steal of a deal)
He's stated more than once the reason he's taking so long to finish this one (OK they are never finished, but getting it useable and road ready) is because he wants to be sure everything is done correct as it's his last one!

And to tell ya the truth I was surprised to find out it was sold.

It's been said before and will be again when posting/reading on these boards one needs to remember that sometimes it doesn't always sound the same reading it as it is meant to be by the person typing.

All in all I think Bob an John have done a good job mending the fence, so I'm going to climb back up on it and sit! 
  BK