Church in Houston Looking for a Bus

[PCC]

I was speaking over the weekend with people from a church in the Houston area who are looking for a good coach with 150,000 miles left in it.

Please, if you see one, or know of one, PM me with the details, so I can help them make a good choice.

They are trying to keep the pricing below $25,000.

Manufacturer is an open field.

Thank you in advance.

PCC

[Boomer]

If you really want to do your church friends a good turn, tell them to forget about buying a bus and use a good, solid, professional charter coach company for their needs.  New coaches, appropriate insurance levels, pro drivers with solid credentials and training, and a professional maintenance program VS worn out equipment, no maintenance capabilities, a volunteer driver.  All for what, the glory of having their church's name on the side?  Makes zero sense to me.  The fact that they only have 25K to spend tells me that they would not have any dough for tires or maintenance.  Besides, 25K would probably last a few seasons if applied to charter costs.  JMO

[buswarrior]

Yup, what Boomer said.

The smart church hires transportation out and reaps the benefits of not having to think about it.

As for the glory, for a regular weekly charter, signage is available to apply each week.

Look closely at the signage on a charter coach that wears a big international tour company name...

Put on with water and a squeegee, then removed on return to the garage.

Clear vinyl strips with print on it similarly applied to the upper inside windshield is also common.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[PCC]

Thank you for your comments. I know you are all trying to be considerate and steer this church away from its own vehicle, BUT

1) Buying a good used bus for $30,000 (they are out there) compares to three rentals a week (which they will do, minimum) or 150 charters a year at $200 (try to find that price) for each day-charter.

2) They have at least a dozen professional CDL drivers who attend the church. They also have people who own/work at diesel maintenance facilities

3) Their membership is large enough that the purchase and maintenance of their own vehicle is a drop in the bucket of their annual budget in 7 figures.

They need to be able to carry 45 passengers, so this will be a full size, seated coach.

It is not an ego/pride thing. In this case, it makes good sense.

So, if you see a good coach, with seating, please let me know.

Thank you

[buswarrior]

I hope that the costing model the church is using includes the rest of the operating, insurance, licensing and maintenance costs? The capital cost of buying the coach is only a fraction of what it will cost them.

Get Busted Knuckle to share privately a round figure per mile and per month to own, water and feed a single coach with no dedicated maintenance facility to take care of it. Be prepared for somewhere $2 a mile and some constant measured in the hundreds a week for it to just sit in the parking lot ready to go.

As well, a risk assessment must be considered of the church's image and member satisfaction when the coach has failures?

What is their membership turnover now?

How many hours will any of those CDL holding members have left in their log book, if they are working as drivers?
What will their respective employers think about this use of their driving time?

Who will manage the fleet administrative issues? The extensive regulated record keeping alone is quite a time burner.

What is their contingency for break down?

The devil is in the details.

The coach becomes an extension of the ministry, its failure to deliver becomes part of the overall perception of the church by its members and those who might be thinking of joining.

Pretty much, in this aspect of their ministry, the church becomes a bus/tour company, with the same measures being placed on them by the "customers". The church will own the service delivery failures, it will be no one's fault but theirs, as opposed to the fault resting with the chartered coach company.

In the Houston market, the members have many other churches to choose from. Worse are the ones who still attend and smile, but stop giving in silent protest.

And at that number of charters, the church should be able to attract bidders for their work versus going out to charter it. The price point will be far lower than a regular charter if the church is going out 3 times a week.

And the worshipers get to ride in a new, reliable coach, with the back-up of a fleet to get them home again.

Get the drivers and mechanics in the membership who are interested to hire on with the target coach company and drive/maintain the coach and turn the wages back to give them an outlet for contributing.

This is not just a choice about transportation, this could affect the entire ministry in unintended ways.

The protection and nurture of a 7 figure ministry needs to be top of mind.

My passion on this topic is fueled by my belief that not much else kicks up the devil's heels higher than a failing church.

Sometimes paying for the service makes more sense than trying to provide it yourself.

Same as every other aspect of ministry, it has to be done well, or there are consequences.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[lostagain]

I spent 4 or 5 years of my life driving and maintaining our junior hockey team's bus. It was 400 to 500 hours per year of volunteer work. It was driven fairly safely and maintained quite well. I got burned out and quit about a year and a half ago. Since then it is driven by a string of volunteer part timers and sporadically maintained to barely keep up to DOT requirements. None of the local professional truck drivers have time to do it because they work full time already. I have told the hockey club several times over the years both verbally and in writing that the situation is not safe, and that they should give it up and hire charter companies. But oh no, this is the way it has been done for 30 years, their own bus with their name on the side of it enhances their image and helps recruiting players, etc.

PCC, at least go to the next church meeting and present these arguments from BW, Boomer and myself so they can reconsider.

Oh and a $30000 bus is going to need a lot of work every week to keep it running and in compliance.

JC

[bkelly1011]

PCC -

Forgive me in advance, I'll try not to pile on too badly here.  I'd thought about this for my church - even came up with a co-op model on paper where a group of small- to mid- local churches would share a small fleet and pay based on apportioned usage.  I was an excited man until did the math - and thus I went the route of working part-time for a good local company and giving my earnings to the church to help offset costs.  I could not see anyway to put together and fund an operation to do what the Hageys do (shameless plug intended).

Chartering costs are big, agreed, and the usage frequency you indicated is quite high - moreso than I was considering in my analysis.  Still, is there any possibility they can they work out a contract with a local company at cost-plus-percentage based on a guarantee of frequent trips?  Kind of like a school bus contract?  That would take advantage of economies of scale at the company and eliminate the insurance/liability risks, etc. that the guys highlighted. 

Plus when this need is over, there's no bus to sell.

Also, I'd encourage them to reach out to other churches hosting small fleets to get their takes on this to see what counters what we've come up with.  If they have already, great, that's part of the due diligence.  In any event, I'll be praying for a sound decision on their part.  As BW notes Satan is all over stuff like this and will use it to his advantage in any way (dissension is king!) to try to destroy the Body.

Take care,
Brad

[John316]

Keith,

I am also not one to pile on, but here are some of my thoughts.

We were just at a church that bought two brand new MCI (don't know if they were E's or J's) in 2007. They had a shop do all maintenance and carried full insurance, drug testing, CDL'd drivers, you name it. They could afford this. The buses were used for trips about every other week. On the other hand they bring in over 200K every Sunday.

They started out with good equipment, and didn't have to play catchup with somebody's else's machine.

Btw, when they purchased their bus in 2007 they did a fund raiser to get the money needed. Somebody in the church said that they would match the funds to buy their second bus.

If the church is well funded, that might be a good option to get a bus. If budget is 25-30K for a bus. I would be very careful. Finding a bus that has been maintained for that price could be very tough.

FWIW

God bless,

John

[PCC]

I actually did find a 1995 LeMirage with no body damage, low mileage with a 60 series engine, was repo'd for years, and then placed in service by a bus company in a warm part of the country so it has missed rain and NO salt. Body is straight, transmission was replaced (not rebuilt), seats are good, systems all work, and it is below their price range because the owner is selling off HIS last coach.

May have found a win-win. Now it is up to them. Funding is not an issue, nor is the growing membership.

I do thank you all for trying to pile up on me, but it is not up to me, so don't shoot the messenger. I just went looking and hope I found something they will be satisfied with.

They all told me things when I started my personal project, but I am soon to be done, and have people calling me to do it again.

[gus]

A trucker with a CDL is not licensed to drive a bus with passengers unless he has a bus endorsement on it.

[expressbus]

PCC,

In 2005 I had thoughts of going into an upscale transportation operation for a couple of golf resorts using my coach (RV). Things were going along well until I tried to get insurance coverage. $14,000 per year stopped any more commercial use thoughts. I still have the coach and the wife and I, plus our grandson have enjoyed the dickens out of it.

The church neds to cost out every possible expense and get to a bottom line figure of what the total costs will be. That is unless they have Obie as a member and don't give a hoot what it will cost - someone else will pay their bills!

Will

[PCC]

When I costed out my personal project, it was calculated that my"motor home' costs me $3.81 per mile to run, so you guys are correct when you tell people to check out the cost of operation.

When I am out there, picking up those veterans who cannot get to their medical and other important appointments any other way, I am very thankful for all those who choose to assist with the costs, because I just happen to believe that what I do is making a difference in the lives of men and women who have paid for the freedoms I enjoy.

Over time, I believe that my numbers will prove to have been high, and hope they will stay that way, but then, I did estimate the cost of fuel at a dollar higher than it happens to be right now.

The church (that was the reason for the start of this thread) wishes me to express to y'all their thanks for your sincere expressions of concern regarding their operating costs. They are happy with their budget, and feel comfortable that they are making the right decision.

[buswarrior]

Nothing wrong with being committed to a project!

Ok, to further the advice, since they are going to go this way, be sure they have someone on board with previous experience in managing a fleet's compliance with DOT. With the new CSA system, this is no place for learners, they need some experience.

A program of preventive maintenance, regulatory inspections and documentation needs to be put in place and followed.

I would further advise them to partner with a local bus fleet. Then there is a relationship for getting some of the maintenance done, and be the back-up when the coach is down for repairs, or when a second section is needed for bigger events.

And another source of experienced advice.

Choice of coach model might be driven by what the willing partner's fleet runs. Perhaps even picking up one of their old coaches, since they already know it. Spare parts and mechanic familiarity are crucial to quick and accurate repairs.

With the right people managing this, and a partnership with a supportive commercial bus carrier, it can turn out positively.

I pray they are able to extend their ministry by way of these decisions.

happy coaching!
buswarior

[PCC]

Thank you, warrior.

I found out yesterday that they have been paying almost $3000 a week for charters, but the board wanted to "be sure" that the bus would be used.

So they do have all those great suggestion items in place, and going with Prevost was the first.

i guess I will find out what they have decided the next time I happen to pass their location, and hopefully see a 40 footer being loaded with the people they are there to help (or being washed after a trip !!).

Thank you all. I hope to be in Arcadia in a few months, and hope to meet some of the people who have been there for me on my own project.

[Mex-Busnut]

Most honorable PCC:

Greetings from central old Mexico. I applaud you for your service to our veterans and their families.

I understand the decision has already been made. I will add this anyway, because somebody will come here sooner or later looking for this same information.

We have a 28-passenger skoolie for our youth group. I am the official driver. (Also a 15-passenger youth van) We do long trips here in central and southern Mexico.

We always have trouble coming up with another Class B driver, when I am not able to drive the skoolie (as with my surgery in February, which knocked me out of commission for two months.). Espescially when the kids go to the mountains of Oaxaca for a week of evangelism. If instead of a 45-passenger bus, you had three 15-passenger vans, you would have dozens of available drivers. Then there are many times when we get to a city and spread out to several churches. We are always looking for transportation. The vans would be more useful again here.

And as has been mentioned, insurance and maintanance costs are very high. It can get more expensive than putting a retarded son through Harvard.

My two pesos' worth.