Engine preheat

gumpy · November 07, 2006, 06:53:43 AM

I dunno.

I vote for installing the electric element. It's not real expensive and it gives you time to get the preheat loop installed.

I also found the webasto in my AquaHot didn't want to start last winter when it was well below zero and it wasn't already warmed up by the electric element. It took two or three attempts of power cycle resetting it before it finally fired off. When the tank of coolant is already hot it's not a problem, but it sure didn't like that cold start. Smoked a lot more, too, so I assume it was probably producing more soot on the inside. At least with the block heater, you could still get the engine started if for some reason the webasto wouldn't start up.

I've used my block heater up to this point, because I didn't have my preheat loop installed. I've done that now, so this winter will be a test. I suspect the electric unit won't be used much more, but I still like the redundancy factor.

DrivingMissLazy · November 07, 2006, 07:00:38 AM

Quote from: Chaz on November 07, 2006, 06:40:43 AM
Quotethe reason people convert these monsters is due to reliability

Yeah, that is my opinion also, but starting fluid won't start her when it's cold out.

Chaz

Wrong. That is what starting fluid is for and it has been used many years for exactly that purpose.
Richard

Chaz · November 07, 2006, 07:07:20 AM

Sorry, I may be wrong but she doesn't like to start when cold.

bobofthenorth · November 07, 2006, 01:05:35 PM

I'm sorry but around here starting fluid is for breaking rings on otherwise good engines. If the compression is already gone then maybe there is a place for ether but not on a good engine. Its also good for drying out a flooded gasser and powering a potato cannon but that's another matter altogether.

The best way to start a cold 2 stroke is to warm it and the batteries up a bit. A tiger torch strategically positioned is better than ether, IMHO.

DrivingMissLazy · November 07, 2006, 01:43:27 PM

I do not disagree with you at all Bob. My main point is that starting fluid has been used for at least 50 years, if not more. It had also damaged a lot of engines because of improper use.
However, DD put an injection point on their earlier engines to insert starting fluid, so they must have known that it could be used safely to start a cold engine. Thousands and thousands of cold engines have been started with starting fluid with no engine damage.
Richard

Quote from: bobofthenorth on November 07, 2006, 01:05:35 PM
I'm sorry but around here starting fluid is for breaking rings on otherwise good engines. If the compression is already gone then maybe there is a place for ether but not on a good engine. Its also good for drying out a flooded gasser and powering a potato cannon but that's another matter altogether.

The best way to start a cold 2 stroke is to warm it and the batteries up a bit. A tiger torch strategically positioned is better than ether, IMHO.

Homegrowndiesel · November 07, 2006, 03:51:44 PM

Ok Chaz,

My opinion.
If it wont start with starting fluid you have more to worry about than a block heater.

But from what Ive heard she is not in that bad shape. Check for the factory installed ether port. Usually tapped into the intake adapter bolted to the supercharger. If there is no access port in the metal, pierce a hole in the rubber coupler closest to the blower and force in an access port that (my favorite is cut off metal tire valve stem at angle, with valve removed and cap threads intact) you can cap off.

Crank the engine from factory installed rear engine start switch. After a couple of revolutions give one very short blast of ether as you are cranking, if it does not fire any cylinders off within 15 revolutions stop and let the starter cool. After a couple of miniutes try again with only a little more ether. DO NOT spray in ether in excessive amounts or dire results can occur. (s#!^ can happen)

Factory ether injection was installed in most cold weather operated diesel units.EOMV

OH YEA your question. Its cheap, when you are at a power pole you can easily keep her warm. Water, not oil, or hopefully not blowtorch. (I resemble that remark)

OK Now my experiences with MY bus.

She will not start without some assistance below 40? degrees.
She will start IN TIME when plugged into 110. (block heater)
She will start with ether in any temprature I have encountered.
She will Start, and heat the bus using the diesel boiler, or generator.
I have not used mine since I experimented with Ether on this bus.

Back to opinions,

Go out and start it on ether. (where is my legal disclaimer)
You will find this usefull when stopping & starting in different cold weather situations.
Its not alot of money if you have the time and it rises to the top of your priority list, go for it. you may find someplace to use it?

Fire away with the questions, I like to see the sparks.

Bill

bobofthenorth · November 07, 2006, 05:09:03 PM

DML I'm not arguing with you either. Ether can be used safely but in inexperienced hands it can cost a lot of money. And engines quickly become addicted to ether if the operator doesn't know what he is doing. Ether should be a last resort. Again - IMHO.

DrivingMissLazy · November 07, 2006, 05:18:57 PM

Quote from: bobofthenorth on November 07, 2006, 05:09:03 PM
DML I'm not arguing with you either. Ether can be used safely but in inexperienced hands it can cost a lot of money. And engines quickly become addicted to ether if the operator doesn't know what he is doing. Ether should be a last resort. Again - IMHO.

I totally agree
Richard

Chaz · November 07, 2006, 06:17:21 PM

Thanx Bill,
I'll use your method. But I do have an appt tomorrow with a guy who works on these motors. I'll see if I have any other issues. I'll keep ya posted.
Chaz

gus · November 07, 2006, 06:46:32 PM

Bill,

That is not the correct ether starting procedure for the 6-71. The book says to put ether in the cup then walk around to the front and start the bus. If it doesn't start do it again. It says nothing about spraying ether while cranking and provides a nice little cup which drips ether directly into the blower box.

I know this is standard procedure for a 4-stroke diesel, but DDs are different.

If you crank a cold 6-71 before using ether you will make enough smoke to hide an army division.

The 8V-71 may be different, but, knowing GMC, I doubt it.

He needs to check the manual. The best place to look is the Operating Manual, this is the small one used by drivers.

Chaz · November 07, 2006, 07:04:53 PM

GUSC is right about the "cup" on the top. That is where I shoot the ether. I was using a little airline that I ran from the upside down bottle (ether start set up) into the hole on the cup and would give it a shot that way, but that can ran out. (I would not leave the line in the cup) The regular spray can doesn't seem to work as well.
he's right about the army division too!!

I don't have a driver's manual, but I do have the big one.
Thanx!!!
Chaz

RJ · November 07, 2006, 08:53:44 PM

Chaz -

"Heat soaking" a diesel will also help you get it started w/o a block heater sometimes.

Should be done from the rear, using the rear start switch.

Hold throttle lever closed w/ LH, use RH to hit start switch. (Will have to s - t - r - e - t - c - h some to reach both!)

Keeping throttle closed, turn engine over for 15 seconds.

Stop, wait 30 seconds.

Repeat.

Often, after the 4th repetition, on the 5th if you let go of the throttle, it will roar to life and that distinct lopey idle.

And send all the moquitos buzzing for cover! LOL

Once the air pressure comes up, get in it and go somewhere - best way to thoroughly warm everything up is to put it under load (drive it - not idle it!)

FWIW & HTH. . .

Chaz · November 08, 2006, 05:53:10 AM

Hmmmmmm, that is interesting. I'm not sure I understand how that works, but I will keep it in mind. The good thing is my rear starter switch is right next to my throttle. But with an air throttle, do I have to be concerned about holding it shut?

Thanx for the tip.
Chaz

Chaz · November 08, 2006, 01:06:00 PM

OK guys,
I just got back from the shop where I had a mechanic listen to it......................... fruitless.

He did say that the little extra "click" you would hear and then smooth out was probably an injector. And he said the extra smoke was a good indication also. Also the- what I think is- the lack of power could also be an indication.

BUT........ he also said it takes "allota time to do the adjusting on the injectors". (I already knew that) But he also said to figure on 2 1/2 DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to do the job!!!! Then he said he hadn't done one in 20 years. I wanted to say he wasn't going to do one anytime soon either!!!

So, I am back to looking for a mechanic. But it doesn't have to be done immediately as he also felt it was "ok to run like this".

Just thought I'd give you all an update.

Thanx for all your help and ideas so far.
Oh, my cousin who is a trucker said to add some injector cleaner. He said that since it had been doing allot of sittin, it could help. Any preferences on a brand?

thanx,
Chaz

buswarrior · November 08, 2006, 05:58:27 PM

Chaz...

Starting fluid, ether, LOVE JUICE, whatever....

was invented to start the big girl in the cold.

I carry a can in my bag when out in the winter driving charter, just in case winter, Webasto/Espar and the Series 60 aren't cooperating.

Works everytime!!!

Note to purists: a small sniff, right up the air intake, with the filter removed, while cranking, won't put her in the methadone clinic.

Believe it or not!

happy coaching!
buswarrior