To Jake or not to Jake ( brake that is)...opinions please

[kbunnystarr]

  :-\I have a 1975 flx transit conversion.  it has no Jake brake........  can you guys offer words of wisdom on rather or not you think it is a necessary to have put in?  Is it possible on all buse?  Approx cost?  ANd any other thoughts.........................I have gotten opinions both ways on it, but nothign 100% convincing  either ay, so please, as many of you as can take a few minutes please let me know your opinions.  Thank so much!!!!!

[DrivingMissLazy]

My personal opinion is that it is not worth the cost unless you plan on doing a lot of mountain driving. It is nice to have but not in any way mandatory.
Richard

BTW, congratulations, you are no longer an newbie!!

[kbunnystarr]

    Still a ewbie, just not on the board   but thanx!!!

I dont PLAN on alot of mountain driving, but mountains DO pop up and so do trips that are unexpected.......are you basically saying that with safe driving and not constant steep mountain trips, that my brakes are jsut fine and can handle the occasional mountain with out fear and fret?

BTW, what kind of servicing needs to be done on breaks , how often, and how do you know you need to?  Maybe that should be another post....hope everyone is nice to me on that one.....Im still learning........

[H3Jim]

DML hit it on the head, depends on the kind of driving you'll be doing.

For my bus, withteh long distance stuff I do out in the west, and going to the desert over the mountains from San diego, I consider a Jake a minimum requirement saftey device.  I would not have a bus without them.

I have an automatic that has a featuer to save the engine from over revving.  If I am in say 4th gear (I have 6) going down a hill, and the engine rpms creep up to 2200, the tranny will automatically kick it to 5th gear, so I then loose all my engine braking.  Good in that it saves the engine, bad, in that I then really pick up spped.  Of course the answer is to just slow down and go down the hills slower, say in 3rd instead.  I've also had the Jakes fail at the top of a serious mountain. 

Having said all that, I repeat, I will never have a bus without them - its a minimum safety equipement in my opinion.  Should make my service brakes last a long time too, I rarely use them except below 15 miles an hour comng to a stop.

[twostroke]

Well I have had jakes for my full 15 years of full timing.  Like the add says, "I wouldn't leave home without them".  Except I am home all the time.  I had them on my 4502 GM transit from the first go, 8V71 and just installed jakes again on the very recent 6V92TA.  I'm sold on them, mountains or not.  !5 years of go on them and the brakes have a lot of lining left.  I really like it going through big (ugh) towns on the freeway and all the turkeys are changing lanes, I just leave it on instead of using the foot brake.

IMHO, go for em.

Al

[kbunnystarr]

what is the cost of installing jake brakes?......../parts/labor

[kbunnystarr]

most of my driving for the next 5-10+ yrs anyway will be wa, ca, or, one trip out of az ( not to go back).and then no further toward the  east than south dakota.........

[rayshound]

If you do alot of traveling I would get the Jakes. It has been awhile since I priced jakes for the 2 stroke but they were fairly cheap. The labor may be another story. I had recently purchased the pac brakes for a series 60 and was around $600. from a wrecking yard. These were easy to install, I still need the computer to be reprogramed to accept them. I do not know what is involved to installing them on a 2 stroke.  Ray

[HighTechRedneck]

most of my driving for the next 5-10+ yrs anyway will be wa, ca, or, one trip out of az ( not to go back).and then no further toward the  east than south dakota.........

I understand you aren't looking at spending a lot of time in the mountains but driving the highways in those states will put a lot of steep grades in your path.  As I recall, almost every Interstate and US Highway in CA, OR & WA has them and to get from anywhere in the west to South Dakota will require crossing the Rockies.  For example, I-5 through CA, OR & WA will take you up and down 4 or 5 of them.

You can certainly do without a jake brake by taking your time and using your low gears on grades.   But if it were me and I was looking at driving mostly around the Rockies, Sierras and Cascades then I would want a jake brake.

[bobofthenorth]

I get to drive without my Jake occasionally when the switch screws up.  Its better with it, especially if you are towing.  My advise would be to get one installed.  Even on the flats I use it regularly.

[kbunnystarr]

suggestions on places to start looking to get ideas on best prices  for them? just so i have a rough idea of sources and prices?  and as far as labor............can any one tell me what they have spent?

[TomC]

Granted the transits have bigger brakes (I have an AMGeneral 10240B).  But-they are still drum brakes.  The two ways you can loose your brakes (besides loosing air pressure-but your maxi's would then apply) are- if your brakes are out of adjustment (over 2" of rod travel when cold) when the brakes get hot they expand away from the linings eventually not letting the linings touch the drums-hence no brakes.  Or if they are in adjustment getting so hot that the linings glaze over-meaning they loose their friction capabilities and it turns into feeling like grease is on the linings-once again no brakes.  If you have disc brakes, you don't have to worry about this.  But with drums you do.  Before I even picked up the bus, I had a mechanic install Jakes on the 8V-71N (8V-71 and 8V-92 are the same kit).  This comes from an ex truck driver that drove the country to the tune of 1.3 million miles.  If you stay east of interstate 25, you don't need them.  If you come west of interstate 25, go to Canada, Mexico, or Alaska, no decision-PUT THEM ON!  Should cost arount $1,500.  You might have to modify the rear engine door.  I just removed the door bump that was over the valve cover and now it is exposed out the back.  Like it and it makes for more air venting.  Good Luck, TomC

[Moof]

A few years back I had a rebuilt set put on fire truck (8V92).  It cost me $2,500 installed.  Of course it was at a detroit shop.  Could have probably had it done cheaper elsewhere.

[buswarrior]

Hey Tom,

I'm sure you meant 1 3/4" for the fronts and tags and 2" for the rears.
(DD3 type 30 adjustment limit is 2 1/4")

I would also suggest that you don't want your push rod stroke out approaching the adjustment limits because
1) the chamber is weaker the further it strokes
2) the stroke lengthens in relation to the heat in the drum.

It has been suggested that 500 degrees F rise in drum temp will lengthen pushrod stroke by 1/2".

Going down a mountain using acceptable methods for controlling speed with the brakes may show you temps to 800 degrees F in the drums.

The typical brake chamber bottoms out 1/2" beyond the legislated adjustment limit

A brake chamber that bottoms out during a braking event is a very bad thing and your ability to stop will be compromised!

So, keep your brakes well adjusted!

kbunny, if cash allows, buy jakes.  If not, no problem, you just put on the flashers and go down the mountain in gear and at a speed that keeps brake use to a minimum.

Do not roar down the mountain with your foot on the brake constantly. There won't be brakes under your foot for long, if you do!

happy coaching!
buswarrior