Update on Waste Motor Oil Fuel

[Oonrahnjay]

Sorry to be slow responding...  Yes, B100 is straight biodiesel.  (B20 is 20% biodiesel, 80% petro diesel, and so forth.)  You say you got some B99 "straight soy."  I don't know what that means.  Biodiesel is not vegetable oil -- it is methyl esters, chemically derived from oils such as soybean oil.  Anyway, veg oil will help clean things up, but far more slowly than FAME (fatty acid methyl esters = most biodiesel).  I'm hoping you actually got B99.   (snip) 

     I'm thinking that what he got was "real" biodiesel.  Many sellers list properly chemically derived biodiesel as being "straight soy" to differentiate from biodiesel that's made from whatever waste oil that somebody can scrape off the dumpster behind the Chinese restaurant.  "Straight soy" is supposed to sound higher-quality!  Of course, in my experience, even "quality" biodiesel should specifically list the amount of snake oil that in it because it seems to be full of it. 

[Geoff]

I thought Scott was talking about "Waste Motor Oil Fuel", not restaurant veggie oil waste.  That is what the title of this thread is.  Big difference.

--I'm out of here.

--Geoff

[luvrbus]

He was but he took it to the bio diesel and the crap in used oil is just as bad lol

[Geoff]

He was but he took it to the bio diesel and the crap in used oil is just as bad lol

Thanks, Cifford

I must be jumping into these threads without following the bezerk thought process. 

The topics that follow seem to follow the same thought-pattern.

When are we going to meet?

--Geoff

[eagle19952]

Even these are a pain WMO burner....

[Seangie]

Scott -

It would be cheaper at 4 bucks a gallon of diesel to run 25k miles on motor oil and just have the engine pulled and rebuilt than to keep putting Diesel in it. I am a big fan of what you are doing.  Every mile you go over 25k is another dollar in your pocket.  Plus you'll be dumping the money into the mechanics pockets instead of big oil companies.  Run baby run that motor oil

-Sean

[luvrbus]

Sean, you top us all with that one lol makes no sense to me to destroy a engine that will last for 4 to 500,000 miles and you are saying rebuild one at 25,000 miles for money saved on fuel 

Depending on the depth of a  rebuild you can stick up to 20,000 grand in a 6v92.The used engine oil is starting to tell on his engine hate to see it happen to Scott he seems like a real nice young man but he is  going to have the big ONE just a matter of time for him but we all see different lights in the tunnel

[Scott & Heather]

Thanks for the vote Sean I've spent some quality time with you and your family and respect and appreciate our friendship Cliff has been a blessing many times on this forum and most recently on the phone (as well as Bryce)  and I do appreciate the collective wisdom here. Just because I'm still a tinkerer with WMO doesn't mean I don't partially agree with both sides. But again, my experimentation will continue on other vehicles smaller and less expensive to deal with. Here's the end all: I personally have a handful of friends running everything from waste tranny fluid (in a diesel rabbit) to veggie oil (power stroke dually). They have done this for years carefully filtering, extracting water and running it. Study centrifuging and you'll learn it is scientifically proven to filter to sub micron levels. So particulate matter is the least of our worries. Oil not thinned enough and acids or cylinder coking is
More scary to me and largely an unknown. There is a guy who posted photos of his perfectly healthy engine torn down to view after running 17,000 on WMO. Again your mileage may vary (pun intended). I'm just posting my results so people can realize that this is serious stuff to get into. Don't take lightly what you feed your engine unless you're a gutsy one. I happen to be with many things in life. Maybe that's why I snowboard backcountry and double xx blacks at 13,000 feet every winter and it may explain why I quit running my fathers successful IT company bagging excellent income for 7 years so I could travel the country with my cute bride and sing my heart out in diverse places including churches and even the Pentagon soon after 9-11. Gutsy, but occasionally I make a smart move. Geoff, sorry you can't follow my bezerk posts. Someday we will meet and you'll find I'm much more organized in real life. There's a Brad Paisley song that says "I'm so much cooler online" but maybe the opposite is true with me cheers!


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[Oonrahnjay]

I thought Scott was talking about "Waste Motor Oil Fuel", not restaurant veggie oil waste.

     Right.  His engine and/or fuel system may have been sludged up by using WMO (Waste Motor Oil) as fuel.  To try to clean the fuel system, he bought some biodiesel which is often made from WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) -- biodiesel is a pretty aggressive solvent and it will clean up a lot in a fuel system.  Besides being made into biodiesel, some people burn raw WVO as fuel but we haven't gotten into *that* issue on this thread yet.   All this stuff is "big difference" and that's a big difference that's not understood by many people.

[Scott & Heather]

Ditto what he said  ^     


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[Geoff]

Geoff, sorry you can't follow my bezerk posts. Someday we will meet and you'll find I'm much more organized in real life. There's a Brad Paisley song that says "I'm so much cooler online" but maybe the opposite is true with me  cheers!

Sorry, but I have read posts from other people trying to save the planet by doing alternative fuels plans and it is usually a disaster.  It might work on your 35 year old MBZ to get around town, but we are talking buses here.  2-stroke DDA's will run on the low-sulfer fuel just fine.  If your are doing any long distance traveling that is what you have to deal with and pay for.

--Geoff
'82 RTS AZ

[Scott & Heather]

Oh trust me. Im trying to save dough not the planet though that would be a nice thing too. I lost prime today when I blew
My fuel lines out with compressed air back to the tank. So you all know what I will be doing tomorrow :-/


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[Jeremy]

I've always believed that alternative fuel installations can be entirely satisfactory if done correctly, and will probably install a veg oil system on the bus at some point, although the limited mileage it does at the moment doesn't justify the effort.

I do have a Range Rover with an LPG conversion (which isn't really an 'alternative' fuel anymore), and have often wondered whether a veg-oil system should be configured in the same way as LPG systems are - ie., with a completely separate tank and filter system for the second fuel, which is fed into the main fuel line via a metering valve just before it enters the engine. This would seem to give much better control of the ratio of fuels entering the engine (and the 'alternative' fuel supply could be completely turned off in the event of problems or doubt), and it would also bypass all the problems associated with putting the alternative fuel into the existing tank and running it through the existing lines and filters.

It's maybe a more complex installation, but surely worthwhile as a way of avoiding these commonly-occurring problems?


Jeremy

[Oonrahnjay]

I've (snip) often wondered whether a veg-oil system should be configured in the same way as LPG systems are - ie., with a completely separate tank and filter system for the second fuel, which is fed into the main fuel line via a metering valve just before it enters the engine. This would seem to give much better control of the ratio of fuels entering the engine (and the 'alternative' fuel supply could be completely turned off in the event of problems or doubt), and it would also bypass all the problems associated with putting the alternative fuel into the existing tank and running it through the existing lines and filters.

It's maybe a more complex installation, but surely worthwhile as a way of avoiding these commonly-occurring problems? 

        Jeremy, as you probably know, diesel-powered passenger cars are very rare in N. America (mostly due to government policies that penalize their sale and use) so the possibilities of using veg-oil systems are limited.  That in mind, it should be noted that most of the veg-oil systems in use are designed as you have described.

        However, some companies who can make money off the deal have sold many American farmers on the idea that they can be wearing burnooses and driving Rolls Royces if veg oils are used as diesel fuel (thus consuming their base crops and pushing the price up for the sale of the remainer sold in traditional markets) so the farmers' government lobbies have pushed hard for minimum bio-diesel %-ages in ordinary road diesel fuel.  Thus, most veg-oil that's used as fuel in N America is processed into biodiesel and mixed as small quantities into ordinary fuel supplies.  This is done by tax subsidies on bio-diesel use and outright minimum bio-diesel mix specification requirements.  A side effect of this is that waste biodiesel has become valuable (the tax and "mandated use profit" advantages go to waste veg-oil as well as farm-supplied veg-oil) so in many places it is impossible for ordinary users to obtain waste veg-oil because it's collected and sold by restaurants, etc. to waste oil wholesalers; another side effect is that veg-oil use is a rather unique tax that takes money from ordinary consumers and rather than allocating it to the government for use in government policy spending instead passes the money along to farmers.  This is sold as a "green" policy, although the costs of handling, preparing, distributing, and sale of the veg-oil fuel are actually similar to or higher than the provision of petro diesel fuel (which is basically a waste product of gasoline production in N America); the cost efficiencies and moral effects burning food that could go to alleviate hunger in the world as road fuel are also ignored.  (A similar situation applies to ethanol as an adulterant in gasoline fuels.)  So, the prospect is for an owner to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on an "alternative" fuel system for a bus as well as fuel handling and storage systems only to find that waste veg-oil is expensive or impractical to obtain.  This scenario -- in combination with some impressively expensive engine damage histories caused by deposits from the heavy non-fatty-ester components and contaminants in waste veg-oil -- has meant that waste veg-oil systems are rarely seen on diesels in N America.

[chev49]

i dont understand a word bruce said, but im sticking with diesel...