I broke the cardinal rule of sharing ... 24 volt to 12 volt relay circuit...

[Hartley]

Here is what I got,,

Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:48 AM
Subject: Trailer relay diagram on BNO


> Hi Dave.
>
> I came across this link: http://www.rvbus.net/24-12trl.jpg in a post you
> made on BNO in this thread:
> http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/15445.html?1161874578
>
> First, let me say that I am really glad my circuit worked for you, and I
> appreciate your confidence in sharing it with others.  The reason I
> posted this diagram on my SmugMug site in the first place was to help
> out other bus nuts.
>
> That being said, I would appreciate credit where credit is due, so I
> would like to ask you, please, to remove my proprietary image from your
> web site.  You can feel free to continue to post the diagram on the BBS,
> just use the original link to the image on my SmugMug site, here:
> http://odyssey.smugmug.com/photos/4750590-O.gif
>
> Thanks, and also thanks for all the assistance you have been providing
> on the boards.
>
> -Sean
> http://ourodyssey.us
> http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com
> http://odyssey.smugmug.com
>

Here is my response... Geeezzzz Guys...

Credit was given as your name is on the image,
However since you seem to want to be arbitrary on the matter
I will remove the image and note such on all of the BBS systems
that you have complained accordingly.

A small note: I used your diagram only for Others to see, Not myself, I found that
you had virtually copied a circuit that I came up with from general knowlege
from 1980 when I started building relay based tailight adapters.
Obviously when I said copied, I didn't patent the design because it
is in the public domain as it always has been.

Sorry for your personal problems over this.

David....

[bobofthenorth]

Its a simple matter of copyright.  The fact that the internet has made it easy to copy and reuse images doesn't change the fact that if you didn't create the image you don't have the right to use it.  Most of the time it doesn't matter.  Apparently this time it does.

[Ncbob]

The circuit offered by Sean could have been created in a 101 course.  But, since he claims it...it was right that you did what you did.

Most of it have it stored in files anyway...and will share it if need be as a .jpg.  But if it makes Sean feel better...that's what's important..our whole society need to feel better.

Without malice.....

NCbob

[kyle4501]

I have a question, How does one copyright something?

I didn't see any copyright notices on the odyssey site pages I looked at, so how is one to know what is & what ain't copyrighted??? I also saw no mention of copyright in the first post in this thread.


I thought the copyright was to protect the owner from loss of income caused by others either claiming it as their own or otherwise reducing the value/ income to the owner.



I guess we all better stop passing on information unless we can prove it is our original thoughts or thoroughly documment where it all came from (That was scarcasm for those that didn't notice.)

[Dale MC8]

Found this by googling copyrighting, just FYI (and I'm probably in violation right now.)

derivative work
For copyright purposes, a new work based upon an original work to which enough original creative work has been added so that the new work represents an original work of authorship. Examples of derivative works include a translation of a book into another language, a jazz version of a popular tune and a movie based on a play.

There is more there, but this is where to start looking.

Dale MC8

[Melbo]

WOW WOW WOW

Did he figure this out all by himself -- WITHOUT "ANY" HELP

Amazing

Must be some kind of secret formula

Thanks for sharing

Melbo

[DrivingMissLazy]

I believe that would fall more under a patent than a copywright.

As the holder of several patents, I can assure everybody it takes a lot more creative effort than a simple relay logic diagram to get a patent.

Richard

[Len Silva]

Feel free to put this on your website

[Buffalo SpaceShip]

I have a question, How does one copyright something?

The moment you create something new... a photograph, drawing, piece of writing, whatever, you have a copyright on that original work. Now, you can register your copyright with the US Govt. for a small fee, but you actually possess a copyright the instant you create something.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/

HTH,
Brian B.

[bobofthenorth]

I have a question, How does one copyright something?
I didn't see any copyright notices on the odyssey site pages I looked at, so how is one to know what is & what ain't copyrighted??? I also saw no mention of copyright in the first post in this thread.
I thought the copyright was to protect the owner from loss of income caused by others either claiming it as their own or otherwise reducing the value/ income to the owner.
I guess we all better stop passing on information unless we can prove it is our original thoughts or thoroughly documment where it all came from (That was scarcasm for those that didn't notice.)

As Brian said, it is not necessary to display a © notice or register anywhere in order to claim copyright.  I can't speak to the US rules but it sounds like they are similar to the Canadian system which is "if you can prove that you created it first then you own the copyright."  You don't have to prove damages in order to have your copyright violated.  In other words, despite the fact that there is no loss of income from someone using your image or written material, you have still been damaged in the eyes of the law. 

Short answer yes, we all better stop passing on written material or images (note: not information) unless we can prove it is ours.

[kyle4501]

Society is getting way too litigious.

Let's please get real here. Sean was merely asking for proper credit for his work & asked that a link be used to reference his figure/ drawing. Fair enough. I believe he has the right to make that request. Dave was just trying to help answer a question, not take credit for something he didn't do.

I also think it's a good thing that Dave made the request public so we would be aware that this issue exists.

I can't understand the copyright infringement thing. I believe it could be successfully argued that the private work became public when posted on the internet with no use restrictions listed with it.

I think it is GREAT that people are willing to put forth the extra effort to help others like Sean & Dave have done. It is sad that there are people who leave common sense out of it & want to make a bigger deal out of it than is there.

The internet makes it easy to disperse information (or miss-information) & also easy to leave out proper credit where it is due. Personally, I sometimes get carried away & forget to give proper credit. If we are required to give full & proper credit every time we post information, I believe the good information will be harder to find as people will be scared to mention it.

If it had been me, I'd have been embarrassed that I was reprimanded.

If it had been me, I'd have been embarrassed that it was taken public & not quite as I had intended.

When I'm embarrassed, I tend to lash out a little.


I hope we all can learn some from this & keep posting great info for all to use.

To Sean & Dave, Please keep up the posting. I learn lots from you guys! THANKS!!!!

[Hi yo silver]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Kyle.

Dennis
Hi Yo Silver!

[DavidInWilmNC]

Hmmm, this is just silly to me.  If I hit the 'Quote' button in a post, am I violating somebody's copyright by copying their text?   

[bobofthenorth]

Hmmm, this is just silly to me.  If I hit the 'Quote' button in a post, am I violating somebody's copyright by copying their text?   

No, there are provisions in copyright law for exactly that situation.  You are however violating copyright if you copy an entire post verbatim with no attribution.  If the copyright holder doesn't want his material used then it is no different than using your bus without your permission.

[boogiethecat]

My two cents? (or should I call it my "mini flame")

Sean, you're a nice guy but geez give people a break.  This is not rocket science, someone 'violating" your copyright on it is not going to make a million, or even a penny in this instance (isn't that what copyrighting is all about anyway, MONEY?), and for what it's worth it's not even a properly designed circuit because if nothing else you forgot to include catch diodes on your relay coils. (and I know you're better than that)

Giving DrDave trouble for something as BASIC as this...yes to the letter of the law he may be wrong...but sandbox 1A relay logic for gawds sake?, is just plain SILLY.
You should be flattered that he chose to share your "design" with others... get real....
Gary