Detriot Deisel 8V71 engine coolant in oil broke down in Central Florida

[hargreaves]

What Clifford and I both mean is the engine thrust load is on the bottom main shell and the upper  rod shell. I agree with him, all the bearings should be changed and while doing so, do as Don suggested, check the webs.  230 is quite hot.  Bearings are cheap.  After all the work is done change the oil a couple of times, and again after 500 miles.  Should be good to go after that.

Gerry 

[Don Fairchild]

Paul,

Antifreeze has never been good on any engine bearings. If the block is not cracked I would fix the engine then run it at around 1000 rpm for 5-10 Min's then change the oil again. I would then run it for about 500- 1000 miles and change it again. Might be a little over kill but you would clean out the oil system. Clifford is correct the oil cooler is going to be full of antifreeze and muck.

You check the bearings by looking at the bottom main bearing and the top of the rod bearings. you are looking at the part of the bearing that takes the load.

hope this helps

Don

[buswarrior]

Antifreeze is a poor lubricant in a high stress location like the rod/main bearings.

Allows unprotected metal to metal contact.

Once it gets in the sump, it is favoured by the oil pick up as it heads for the bottom all the time, the oil floating on top of it.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[artvonne]

Paul,

Antifreeze has never been good on any engine bearings. If the block is not cracked I would fix the engine then run it at around 1000 rpm for 5-10 Min's then change the oil again. I would then run it for about 500- 1000 miles and change it again. Might be a little over kill but you would clean out the oil system. Clifford is correct the oil cooler is going to be full of antifreeze and muck.

You check the bearings by looking at the bottom main bearing and the top of the rod bearings. you are looking at the part of the bearing that takes the load.

hope this helps

Don

  Okay your thinking is along my own. Flush flush flush and inspect. I am quite familiar with engine measurement and inspection. What I am asking however is the opinion that antifreeze is corrosive, or that even after flushing it would lead to further damage. I have now read some sites where some of the antiquers with old poured babbit bearings are seeing the same issue, the antifreeze attacking the bearings, taking them out as it were and quite rapidly by the sounds of it. I am wondering if there is something new in antifreeze that is causing this. Does not appear to be only related to diesels.

  Are you guys only worried about the mains and rods, or are the cam bearings going to have trouble too? Trying to get a picture how deep y'all feel a guy has to go into one of these buggers after a coolant bath/oil contamination. To pull the cams you would have to pull the motor and just about tear it completely down, correct??

  And I was just thinking all the places the oil is pumped, alternator, air compressor, blower, what a mess.

[buswarrior]

Putting this into some perspective.

Antifreeze in the sump was not the end of the world in Big Transit.

1700 buses, and they used to be ALL 6V71 engines, even our younger technicians know how to tune 'em up.
Sadly, the last one finished a few weeks ago... anyway...

I'm talking all the way up the dipstick in some cases. Yes, they ran, Driver reported the power was sluggish...

Drain it, figure out how it was getting in and repair, pull a bearing cap to see what the bearing looked like, if it looks ok, slap it back together, follow a fill, run, drain and then short change on a cycle similar to mentioned, and forget about it.

Like the biblical Lazarus, a '71 engine can come back from the dead with a simple wave of a hand.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[artvonne]

Drain it, figure out how it was getting in and repair, pull a bearing cap to see what the bearing looked like, if it looks ok, slap it back together, follow a fill, run, drain and then short change on a cycle similar to mentioned, and forget about it.

Like the biblical Lazarus, a '71 engine can come back from the dead with a simple wave of a hand.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

  Thats how ive been doing it my whole life, how I was taught when I was a kid, and about the same way they do airplane engines.

  Thank you.

 

[RickB]

No disrespect guys but we all want peace of mind in our buses. If they break down it's not as simple as getting a local wrecker to tow us to the local repair shop, it's a major wrecker coming from hundreds of miles at times, rare mechanics and lost vacations in repair shops. If everyone says something it usually is based upon experience and everyone that I've ever spoke to says bearings and coolant don't mix.. I have pulled my subaru motor 3 times in the last 2 months because I listened to the "slap her back together, she'll be fine" guys and if I just would've spent the money and did what the best mechanic around said instead of listening to the "save your money" guys, I would've saved myself alot more money and heartache in the long run. Funny the guys that said slap her back together again were never around to help or pay for the mistakes they talked me into. Lord Family, you are traveling as a family in a bus alot. Don't try to go on the cheap on this one, you have too much riding on this. Put those bearings back in and you run a real chance of being right back in the shop again. Spin a main bearing and you have a 3 thousand lb boat anchor. Line boring that block would cost you 5 grand if you could even find someone that still does it.
Don and Clifford you guys are such a blessing to this board

I'll be praying for your family through this. keep us informed.

rick

[Dreamscape]

If Y'all were closer you could have the one I just pulled out of our Eagle. Pay me when you could. It ran fine, leaked a bit. But no coolant in the oil.

I hope you are able to get it fixed properly and back on the road. Don't short cut, it will cost you more later.

[artvonne]

  I dont think anyone here is suggesting "slapping" it back together. All anyone is trying to do, is find the best and most economical approach and try and save the engine. In over 40 years turning wrenches I have never yet heard of tearing an engine completely down or throwing one away because it suffered a coolant leak. I have a pile of Mercedes Service manuals (and just about every other make) and none of them recommend anything of the sort after that type of failure. Clean, inspect, major clean, repair. Massive overheat leading to unrepairable engine damage should be found in the inspection before doing anything else.

  Now maybe Cliffords onto something about the Chinese junk bearings, and we must all admit Chinese parts are getting into everything and their quality is totally and completely suspect. That could change the rules by a large margin, and possibly change the entire way we approach mechanics today. Now if he finds the mains and rod bearings are chinese do we assume the cams are too? And then what??

   

[LordFamily]

Good morning everyone!
I so appreciate all the advice and info.  It's been quite a learning curve.
Thank you for the heart felt words and prayers!
Monday we pull the head and see.
I did see coolant coming out of the line going to my alternator.... The magitude of it all is sinking in.
So the air compressor will have it too?
And the blower?
Should I be disconnecting these so they can drain?
Also upon inspecting the parts for 'made in China' I don't see that, I see ArmaSteel.
IMHO, China only makes what US companies tell them to make...
The bus was completely rebuilt about 7 years ago by Covington in Tenn and Appalachian Tours spent a lot.  I'm suspecting all DD parts were used.
Thanks again!

[PCC]

I know of your mission, and I know these things are an interruption to your schedule, so just know there are people who are holding you up as the time passes.

Stand strong - it is all in HIS hand.

Wish I could help.

Keith

[LordFamily]

Thanks Keith!
I needed that!
We are looking for another coach with bunks if we need to go that route.

[hargreaves]

All the accessory items you mentioned are basically self draining, except for some pockets in the blower, that is why after it is all together you run it till it's warmed up and drain it. Fill it up and go 500 miles and drain it again. 

[bobofthenorth]

Its your money but it seems to me you're over reacting if you plan to go from a broken bus that you know to a completely unknown replacement bus.  Buses were designed so that engines can be swapped easily.  Find yourself a takeout and swap yours out if you're convinced the one you have is history, which it sounds like it is.  That way the only unknown will be the engine but you'll have an unknown engine if you change buses, along with a host of other unknowns.  Presumably the bus you have is set up so you can live comfortably in it.  A different bus won't likely be ready anywhere near as soon as you could have the engine swapped in your existing bus and the cost doesn't need to be extreme. 

I know what its like to be broke down on the road - BTDT big time.  Take time to think through your options - don't get locked into a path until you have looked at all the possibilities.

[artvonne]

  I am just going to say this and let it land where it falls. If a simple coolant leak into the oil, causing oil contamination will junk these Bus engines, I probably bail out now.

 I know there is a bit more going on here with the overheat and all, but still. I bought into the whole Bus thang because I believed they were much more robust and heavy duty that the run of the mill RV junk. This is not some game, I want to go to Alaska someday. If any damned coolant leak is going to cause a total engine out replacement I need to find a different mode of transport.

 So whats the consensus? Tell me Clifford is right and I can find the door now. I think its total BS myself, but if thats what y'all believe then so be it. Since before I could drive I have hated anything GM. But I always liked their Buses and thought Detroits were pretty tough. Maybe that was only misguided enthusiasm.