riveting questions

[Scott & Heather]

I second the motion that suggests once it's painted it will hide the rivets somewhat. Tis true. I hated the look of our riveted nude aluminum. Then once it was painted, the rivets "disappeared". 

[lostagain]

What is "Clecos" ?

JC

[FloridaCliff]

What is "Clecos" ?

JC

Cleco's are temporary rivets that you use to hold your work in place.  they have a special tool that removes and inserts them.

Here's a picture;

http://www.rivetsonline.com/cleco.html

Have fun

Cliff

[artvonne]

  And heres a picture of clecos being used on a wing. Without them the metal will almost always have a ripple.

  I am probably in the lower percentile, but I like the look of rivets on a Bus.

[buswarrior]

gus, how are you going to get a "properly riveted seam" on an ancient piece of commercial cast-off like our busnut bus conversions?

That's a great theory, but the reality is we're riveting in waves of corrosion induced swelling and years worth of panel stretching collisions and other rot.

If a busnut uses sealer, pretty hard to have a leak.

If a busnut doesn't use sealer, and it does leak, what is the remedy then?

Like we don't have enough to do, to go back and do over our screw ups?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[gus]

Good point!!

However, just make sure the sealer isn't slopped on too thick like on auto body seams. If it is there is no way the rivets will hold due to so much bus movement. What good is a water tight seam if the rivets shear?

[bevans6]

If you can get the 3/16" aluminium rivets with a closed end, use them.  Pre-drill and deburr the holes on the exterior panel.  I personally don't use cleco's because I can't afford them in all the sizes I use, I use 1/2" no 6 self tapping screws to attach the exterior panel, then drill and rivet, then remove the screws and drill and rivet those holes.  If this was my bus, I would strongly consider using structural double sided tape to attach the panels instead of rivets.  My new trailer's walls are put together with double sided tape, looks great and is very strong.  

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Industrial/Adhesives/Product/Bonding-Tapes/VHB-Tape/

Brian

[gus]

I don't have many clecos but have four or five sizes, you don't need many for patching because you can just do a few holes at a time. The whole idea is to keep the metal from moving so the holes stay aligned. Small screws are just as good as long as they are smaller than the rivet size.

Very large panels like in that wing photo are a different matter, That is hard and precise work and I'm too lazy for that!! Really good riveting is an art and I'm far from that stage.

I also prefer solid fill pop rivets for non-aircraft work and sometimes for aircraft work that is not structural. Actually, there are structural solid fill pop rivets but affordable ones are not approved for aircraft use. Hollow pop rivets are a waste of time on buses because of vibration.

Bucking solid rivets is one of my least favorite forms of recreation.

[Rick59-4104]

 I had about a 5" round hole needed covered on a 1948 aluminum travel trailer and ended up putting a fake access door over the hole complete with rivets and hinge, intended later to come back and install a box behind it for a small storage area. Looked like it came from the factory that way after I finished. Kind of a "if you can't hide it disguise it solution"

Was a lot easier than trying to make it appear the hole was never there.


Rick

[jjrbus]

The key is "properly riveted"   I among others did not have the training or experience to do a proper job! Neither I nor my helper had any experience buck riveting when we started!

I used : Dap 27062 Butyl-Flex Gutter and Flashing Caulk it is a butyl rubber product.  Too thick and it leaves bumps between rivets, too thin and it will not seal, somewhere in between.  JIm

[gus]

Installing an inspection plate instead of a patch is a very good idea and often used. The main thing is that the hole be reenforced around the inside edge if it is on a structural panel and this is a lot of work.

Sometimes you can get away without the reenforcing metal - if it buckles you know you didn't!!

[AeroFluffy]

If you're still looking for rivets, Cherry-N type rivets are blind rivets used in some homebuilt aircraft that are (technically) non-structural and have a closed-end, so they'll be a bit more watertight than open-ended rivets. For rivets that can be used structurally (or at least don't have a hollow core) there are Cherry-Q rivets, as well as a few types of rivets meant for aircraft (but are fairly expensive). The material that the rivet is made of should be the same or comparable to what your are joining (so aluminum rivets with aluminum sheet metal, or stainless steel rivets with stainless steel). For aircraft sheet metal work, the rule of thumb for spacing rivets is to locate the center of the rivet hole at least twice the diameter of the rivet from the edge of the sheet, and rivets should be spaced so adjacent rivets or rows of rivets are at least four times the diameter of the rivets apart. Another rule of thumb I've read is that the diameter of the rivet should be 4 times the thickness of the sheet but no more than 3/16".