Replace Engine -- Good one?

opus · February 18, 2012, 08:30:50 AM

The reason I suggested the 8.3 is because you can still get 1995 models that are non-electronic. The ones that are in school buses are 250hp. This would be a straight forward transplant, so long as you have room. I would surely stay away from any electronic engines, whatever you do.

belfert · February 18, 2012, 08:57:47 AM

Quote from: Oonrahnjay on February 18, 2012, 08:09:09 AM
A Google search isn't helping me ... are there "non-electronic" early-model-year versions of the Series 50 engine available on the "used engine" market?

Series 50 and 60 engines are electronic only. There is no mechanical version like the older two stroke.

Oonrahnjay · February 18, 2012, 10:32:36 AM

Quote from: opus on February 18, 2012, 08:30:50 AMThe reason I suggested the 8.3 is because you can still get 1995 models that are non-electronic. The ones that are in school buses are 250hp. This would be a straight forward transplant, so long as you have room. I would surely stay away from any electronic engines, whatever you do.

Thanks, that's good info. I've been doing a lot of Google searching on the 8.3; it's definitely up in the top contenders. I haven't looked around at what's out there but I'm hoping that there may be some ~1994MY school buses going at near-scrap prices.

Appreciate the help and effort, BH

lostagain · February 18, 2012, 11:15:40 AM

I've never heard of a non electronic, mechanical S50 or 60.

JC

Oonrahnjay · February 18, 2012, 12:14:21 PM

Quote from: lostagain on February 18, 2012, 11:15:40 AM
I've never heard of a non electronic, mechanical S50 or 60.
JC

Yeah, that's what I thought and I'm impressed with the fuel efficiency gains that electronic engines give but ... I just don't think that I'm up to the challenges of installing all the electronics, as well as the trouble and expense of diagnosing through plug-in computers, etc. Not to mention some of the maintenance nightmares that some people have seen in service. But that's why I asked the question, to gather info for when I need it. Thanks for the input.

opus · February 18, 2012, 12:39:11 PM

What size bus do you have? What type of driving are you going to be doing? 5.9 could possibly be a very good option, depending on your use. Your fuel mileage would be better too.

belfert · February 18, 2012, 02:05:28 PM

Too small an engine can give worse mileage than a larger engine in some cases. When the Dodge Dakota crew cab came out the bigger V8 gave better mileage than the smaller V6 because the V8 wasn't struggling with the extra weight.

Oonrahnjay · February 18, 2012, 09:15:43 PM

Quote from: opus on February 18, 2012, 12:39:11 PMWhat size bus do you have? What type of driving are you going to be doing? 5.9 could possibly be a very good option, depending on your use. Your fuel mileage would be better too.

I'm planning to get a good weight on my bus in the next couple of weeks but it's a rather unusual configuration, it's a 33-foot British double decker. Weight before I started conversion was about 18,000 pounds but it pushes a fair amount of air. I'm planning a good amount of highway miles but I'd be happy with a cruise speed of 57 - 59 Mph. The current engine is rated at 150 Hp but I'm guessing that it's not making nearly that much now; my open-highway Mpg has been about 12.
I'll have a good look at the 5.9; were they used on medium-sized school buses prior to the introduction of "electronic engines"?

Thanks for the comments. BH

Brassman · February 18, 2012, 09:39:48 PM

That Cummins 6.7 that TomC mentioned is sure looking good to me.

Mex-Busnut · February 19, 2012, 05:01:07 AM

Quote from: Oonrahnjay on February 18, 2012, 09:15:43 PM
I'll have a good look at the 5.9; were they used on medium-sized school buses prior to the introduction of "electronic engines"?

Do a search on ebay for "Cummins school bus". The 5.9-liter ISB Cummins was very popular in Ford, Freightliner, Bluebird and International school buses. Ours that we use with our youth group is a Thomas body 28-passenger with a standard transmission, and came with an intercooled turbocharger. These are very faithful, non-electronic engines. Parts for them and people who can work on them abound. It came standard in 175-225 horsepower. On some versions, raising the horsepower is as simple as sliding a fuel pressure plate a tiny distance forward.

There is also a Dodge version, which was designed for their pickups. It puts out more horsepower, but much less torque, and is electronic and has a bunch of smog stuff added. I am sure you do NOT want that version.

opus · February 19, 2012, 07:42:11 AM

Being a double decker we dont have to worry about you wanting to do 70mph zipping around. Your current engine is 150hp, I think the 5.9 would be a great replacement, and the most inexpensive of all. It should be a "hook it up and go" swap.

Yes, the 5.9 was used on a lot of school buses. They also used the DT466 but the Cummins is much better with fuel economy and can be had cheaper.

I am assuming this is an older vehicle?

luvrbus · February 19, 2012, 07:49:09 AM

A L10 Cummins mechanical or electronic will serve you well Bruce and they can be bought at good prices I work on the 8.3 and 5.9 in the school buses here I'll pass on those lol

Oonrahnjay · February 19, 2012, 11:31:07 AM

Quote from: opus on February 19, 2012, 07:42:11 AM
Being a double decker we dont have to worry about you wanting to do 70mph zipping around. Your current engine is 150hp, I think the 5.9 would be a great replacement, and the most inexpensive of all. It should be a "hook it up and go" swap.

Yes, the 5.9 was used on a lot of school buses. They also used the DT466 but the Cummins is much better with fuel economy and can be had cheaper.

I am assuming this is an older vehicle?

Good points. Yes, I have no fantasy that I'm creating an Aston Martin sports car here - more like a Daimler limo. One issue that I have is that the current Leyland O-680 engine (O = "oil" i.e. diesel; 680 cu in.) is known to respond to Tender Loving Care from people who know the ins and outs of its fuel injection system. My bus was used by a UK school bus operator before I got it -- it may have been "turned down" to restrict the RPM's (for reliability and to limit speed). I can keep it maintained but I don't know details on how to tune it so that it's putting out max power/that its mechanical condition allows it to make now. Therefore, I don't know exactly the mix of whether it's putting out about 150 hp, and if not because it's becoming worn or if because it's "tune limited". But if it is putting out a real 150, if I'm going with a replacement engine, I will want to add 50-60 hp because the current performance is pretty uninspiring (also, I can't imagine that it will pull any big grades on an Interstate at a reasonable speed). So, I worry a little about the 5.9 being a little short on power and it's basically a "pickup" engine, isn't it? I don't want this to be a changeover that's "a dollar short"; if I'm going to do it, I want a reasonable improvement in the result.

Oonrahnjay · February 19, 2012, 12:12:55 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on February 19, 2012, 07:49:09 AMA L10 Cummins mechanical or electronic will serve you well Bruce and they can be bought at good prices I work on the 8.3 and 5.9 in the school buses here I'll pass on those lol

Thanks, Clifford. I'll add that one into the mix. I have a friend who has one in a Leyland bus; I've tried to find a spec on the length of that engine on Google and nothing shows up. Will that meet our ~44" length spec?

opus · February 19, 2012, 12:20:36 PM

The best scenario in my opinion would be to keep the engine you have, if at all possible. Can you have someone that is a good diesel tech check it out and see if it can be made to please you? Surely there has to be a Leyland forum?

The 5.9 displacement is half of what your engine now is. I guess all I saw about your engine was the hp and not the displacement.