Cost of Jake Brake install

[lostagain]

You will find the service and installation manuals at Jakebrake.com.

JC

[Boomer]

A lot of guys putting jakes on a 4106, '07, '08, 4903 take the easy way and install an after market R&M fiberglass tailgate.  They look OK but I prefer the vintage look.  A good sheetmetal guy can fab an alumimun piece to clear the valve cover and with nice riviting it looks almost OEM.  A lot cheaper too.  I got my jakes for the 6L71TA for free when the local distributor was clearing out their 2 stroke used parts, then had them overhaul the set.  Cost 750. including two solinoid units instead of just one.  Also got the cast alum Jake valve cover there for 50.00 which is very hard to find now, almost impossible. You should track down an old timer somewhere that wants a week project and spent his career working on 2 strokes.  They have the feel and tools and would probably do the job for a song.  Now days most Detroit shops don't even have anyone that knows anything about a 2 stroke since the S60 came out in the mid '80's, 25 years ago.

[artvonne]

You will find the service and installation manuals at Jakebrake.com.

JC

  Thats awesome, thank you

[PSmith]

Unless you're pressed for time, doing things yourself brings with it a great deal of satisfaction and understanding of your systems on the bus.  Jakes are very interesting, but not beyond the realm of a busnut that likes to dig in and figure it out.  Take your time and enjoy the journey. 

[luvrbus]

Jakes are not that hard to install if you pay attention, what I see is bridges not set right that will cost you a valve to cup,then you see installs where people didn't back off the push rod and use the starter to rotate the engine Jake bridges are thicker than than the standard, then people try to adjust the valves with the bridge adjustment screw,then they try to adjust the bridges on the engine and break the guide,some won't spend the 20 bucks for a Jake gauge the list goes on and last they will screw a buffer switch into the housing to far start the engine and it is off to races the engine will blow most of the time before you can shut one down.

I really have a hard time with why people want Jakes on a 2 stroke the 2 stage Jakes on a DD is a waste of time and money too me if you have 3:36 gears and a 740  the Jakes don't hold much back till you down shift to 2nd gear but we don't all think a like lol

[luvrbus]

q

[PSmith]

Comparing Jakes effectiveness on 2-strokes vs other types of engines is easy -  I have No other experience to relate to.   So I think they are great ! - I just don't know any difference.

They work pretty well for coming down I-17 from Prescott (home) to Phoenix and from Kingman to Laughlin and from Flagstaff to Ashfork (turn off to Prescott).  I hardly have to use the service brakes at all.  But I'm prepared to at all times and I keep the speed down and I run down the hills in second at 45 anyway.

Like I said - I like them and for me there just 'wonnerfull'  

I completely respect Clifford's opinion on this. He has vast knowledge about this and a lot more. But taking time and being very careful and understanding why each step of the installation is critical - I think Jakes can be installed successfully and you can learn how to maintain them properly.  

[luvrbus]

Lot's depend on the weight and gearing of the bus no way can you come down I 17 in 4th gear with 3:36 gears and the Jakes hold you back with a 2 stroke lol  you running in 2nd and 45 mph helps a great deal that is the way you do it

[white-eagle]

I really have a hard time with why people want Jakes on a 2 stroke the 2 stage Jakes on a DD is a waste of time and money too me if you have 3:36 gears and a 740  the Jakes don't hold much back till you down shift to 2nd gear but we don't all think a like lol

Clifford, I don't disagree with you much cause usually I don't know enough and you are usually correct.  But, this time, in my experience, you are wrong.  I have a much easier time with jakes, and never having to touch a brake on the  way down hills on I77, Fancy Gap included.  And my trip to Colorado would have been brake and nerve wearing.  We had the bus for about 2 years before we put the jakes on.
If I was going to travel a lot through mountains and hills, i would spend the bucks or the time to do it. 

[luvrbus]

 2 strokes don't carry enough oil pressure at low rpms for the Jakes to be effective then the Allison will free wheel at low rpm you always have to keep down shifting to keep the Jakes engaged and you can just go so far with that they do help but if you ever drive a 4 stroke Cummins.Cat or series 60 now those are Jakes lol ,they work so good most have 3 stages on 6 cyl engine 2 cyl on a series 60 has more braking power than 6 on a 2 stroke  

FWIW Trailways or the Hounds never ran Jakes on the 2 strokes and did just fine in the Rockies lol but if you like Jakes install a set
I do it all the time for people that want a set I have 8v71 here now for a install and sent one out a week or back with just a 1/2 set installed he will be back in the fall for the rest after I make his air horn just for info I have always had Jakes on my 2 strokes the  8v92's

[RnMAdventures]

Jakes are not that hard to install if you pay attention, what I see is bridges not set right that will cost you a valve to cup,then you see installs where people didn't back off the push rod and use the starter to rotate the engine Jake bridges are thicker than than the standard, then people try to adjust the valves with the bridge adjustment screw,then they try to adjust the bridges on the engine and break the guide,some won't spend the 20 bucks for a Jake gauge the list goes on and last they will screw a buffer switch into the housing to far start the engine and it is off to races the engine will blow most of the time before you can shut one down.

I really have a hard time with why people want Jakes on a 2 stroke the 2 stage Jakes on a DD is a waste of time and money too me if you have 3:36 gears and a 740  the Jakes don't hold much back till you down shift to 2nd gear but we don't all think a like lol

When I approach a project that I can either hire out or do myself one of the considerations is the cost of additional tools. In the case of my original quote $5k on the low side. If I can buy the jakes and tools for $5k AND do the job with a degree of confidence, then that is how I would do it. In the end, I have the job done and the tools and knowledge to boot. For most of my years I HAD to work on my own stuff simply because I didn't have the money to pay someone to do it for me. Overtime when I did have someone do some jobs for me I saw the lack of quality in their work, so I would ONLY use a mechanic if I really trusted them or had no choice. In the case of the bus, well it is a new  realm for me. I have considered buying a 8v71 and rebuilding it, just to learn how. I hear you guys talk about the dying art of 2cyl Detroit mechanics. What will be the case in 10 years? I can't see it getting any better. I have another 40 years of busin left in me.

That being said, the gentleman I purchased the bus from drove it as is all over this country. He advised me on mountain driving and how to approach it. He drove this bus without jakes. He did say it would be a nice addition to the bus, but he never said it was necessary either. We have a trip planned in July to go to North Carolina. There are several things I would like to do to the bus before the trip so I am not sure the Jakes will happen before the trip.

One thing the guy mentioned to me when he gave me the quote for the jakes, the cost of programming them. I haven't heard none of you guys mention that. He may have used a different term... but it stuck in my mind as programming. I assume it is a new version of jakes that require that?

[luvrbus]

Doesn't take that many tools you can buy tuneup kits for 300 bucks and Jake gauge for 20,

I don't buy into no 2 stroke people in the future the best and brightest come from our military there is a young lady at WW Williams in Vegas maybe 25 or so years old that can wrench on a 2 stroke with best if not better she showed this old dog how to set a injector on a 2 stroke without a pin or dial indicator and I checked her with a pin and she was on the money something they learn in training 


good luck

[bevans6]

I'll put forward the thought that there is no "dying art of 2 stroke mechanics", there is just a lack of interest and opportunity to learn.  I got pretty far into my engine, about the only thing I didn't do is take the heads off and take the long block apart.  I was into everything but the crank, the cams and the piston kits.  What I learned is that, at the end of the day, it's something a reasonably competent mechanic who is willing to study the situation can deal with.  Yes, there are special tools you need - available on Ebay at 25 cents on the dollar.  Yes, there is a bunch of stuff in the tune-up that is fiddly as heck, setting up the rack is about like balancing 8 carburetors on a motorcycle...  Yes, there sure are ways to blow it up if you start in on the governor without reading and figuring out the book first.  But at the end of the day, it's just an engine.

I'm impressed with Clifford's story about the young veteran - the military is going to be one of the best trade schools out there, and has been for years.  You get disciplined, hard working, skilled young people capable of doing engineering, construction, mechanics, driving, all sorts of "manual" trades that seem to be completely overlooked these days.   I learned countless skills in the military that I retain and use to this day, I rate it as one of the most important periods of my life.



Brian

[junkman42]

My Youngest two of six sons  serve in the US  army.    One of them is a 62B person and regularly works on DD 2 stroke's.  He is of the opinion that in the desert if You want to get home at the end of the day choose a DD 2 stroke!    He is just finishing His fourth tour so should have a valid opinion when it comes to reliability!   the DD in the HEMET which is a wrecker that weighs more than any of Our buses is used to tow anything it can be chained to, uses  the 8V92 coupled to a Allison tranny.  He said they are run boot on the floor day in and out and give no trouble.  His opinion of cummins and cat are not very high.  Funny enough He was amused when I asked Him about  engine oil usage.  They use multigrade in all of the diesel engines and They have no problems with the DD's.  120 ambient air temperature, multigrade oil working at a level that far exceeds any of our requirements and by the way the engine's are not shut down for very long periods of time.  In short This young SFC says He has never had a engine failure.  As a retired air force person I have like others have mentioned used My military life experiences through My whole working life and am grateful for the skills I acquired from the military.  When the chance arises tell the lady thanks for serving.  Regards John L

[Red Rider]

I was one of the lucky ones. Clifford was able to find time to install my Jake's. The reason I say lucky is that he looked over the "kit" that I bought from another Busnut and said " you sure have you a box of parts there". I knew I was in trouble at that point. If I didn't know the parts where useless, how could I justify trying to install them myself?. Clifford gave me a couple of sources to find another "Kit" that met specs and we where able to complete the task. I had the "cut out box" made up at a local sheet metal shop and that set me back about $100.00. We where preparing the 4106 for a repaint so that wasn't a problem.

Two weeks after I left Clifford's the Utahclaimjumper and I convoyed to Yellowstone via the Tetons and Jackson WY. Let me tell you, climbing those grades is one thing but looking down the other side is truly an awakening. I have no idea how those "old timers" drove those Mtns without Jake's.

I for one think they are a quality addition to my Bus and I found that I use them more each trip I make.