Engine compartment access in case of fire

[Ed Hackenbruch]

I know that in the past people have talked about strapping a bike or motorcycle onto the back of their bus. Just as a heads up, on another site that i go to, somebody had a motorhome that caught on fire just a block or two away from a fire station. Normally it could have been put out quickly but because they had bicycles locked onto the back of the coach, the fire dept. could not get to the fire in the engine compartment and they lost the coach. The insurance company is saying that they will only cover 50% of the loss because the owners restricted the access....... something to consider.

[bobofthenorth]

I saw that story too Ed but I'm not convinced.  I think there's more than we're being told.  I've been around firemen and there's no way a couple of bikes strapped on the back of a motorhome is going to stop them when they've got their blood up.  When our fifth wheel caught on fire in Idaho I had to hold them off with their axes and sawzalls.  They wanted to chop their way into a compartment that I was holding the key to and offering to open.  I don't think we should do anything to unduly impede access to the coach in the case of an emergency but I'm not losing any sleep over the ladder that "blocks" access to my engine bay.  The fact that an insurance company is denying coverage shouldn't come as any surprise to anybody.

[gus]

Ed,

Do you know the name of the insurance company?

[Lin]

Ed's post says the bikes were locked on.  I don't know how long that would stop a determined fireman though.

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Gus, no i don't know which company it is.  Just goes to show how some companies will use any excuse/reason to keep a healthy bottom line though.

[rv_safetyman]

Kind of surprised.  Around here, at least in the mountains, the fire departments use what they call a chase truck (often on 1 ton truck chassis) with a tank that they can add foam.  For car/RV fires, they attach a fairly long tube that is sharpened on the end to the hose in order to allow them to puncture the wall of the compartment.  With cars, they puncture the wheel well and with RVs, there lots of places they can puncture -  easiest of which is the radiator.

I was told by our local fire training folks that this kind of apparatus is common with many fire departments.  

As has been said, I am not sure we are getting the whole story.

Jim

[Rick59-4104]

 I agree something's not right here, I am a former full time professional (as in it was my job ) firefighter and I would say a couple of bikes hung with double wrapped log chains and locks on the back of a coach would slow down getting to the fire maybe about 3 seconds....I would fight the insurance company on this one. Would really like to know the insurance company.


Rick

[artvonne]

  We don't have enough information. Fire can expand/spread, slower or faster, all dependent on heat fuel and oxygen. It takes time to respond. Both for the victim and the Dept. Did the victim respond as soon as they saw smoke, or was it engulfed when they made the call? Was the Dept. a manned Dept., or was it an all Volunteer Dept.? Makes a big difference.

  I agree the bikes shouldnt have been too great of an obstacle, but we weren't there. If it was raging hard when the Dept. got on scene and they couldnt get in close enough to get the bikes off, fast enough, they may have opted to back away and let it go. I watched a big Class A catch fire, and I watched the Fire crew back away and let it burn. There are a lot of different systems and many toxic materials in an RV. Once its going, those systems and materials start to cascade onto one another, and things start to accelerate and really rage and explode. I have to admit it was quite interesting to watch, and quite unbelievable how short of time it took to burn to the ground. I doubt 20 minutes elapsed from the time someone saw the first smoke, until the remains were being wetted down, and all that was left was a burned out truck frame sitting on 6 disintegrated tires.



 

[babell2]

Kind of surprised.  Around here, at least in the mountains, the fire departments use what they call a chase truck (often on 1 ton truck chassis) with a tank that they can add foam.  For car/RV fires, they attach a fairly long tube that is sharpened on the end to the hose in order to allow them to puncture the wall of the compartment.  With cars, they puncture the wheel well and with RVs, there lots of places they can puncture -  easiest of which is the radiator.

I was told by our local fire training folks that this kind of apparatus is common with many fire departments.  
As has been said, I am not sure we are getting the whole story.
Jim

They have one of those at the airport fire departments. It's called a fire lance and can puncture an aircraft fuselage and spray the foam inside.

Brice

[jackhartjr]

Was the Dept. a manned Dept., or was it an all Volunteer Dept.? Makes a big difference.
'Round here the volunteers are trained better than the paid ones!
Jack

[luvrbus]

You guys ever see a H series Prevost or the MCI J series burn they burn as fast as a stick and staples job fireman back off and let those burn. 

I bet if you read the fine print on any policy you will find a gotta you on the coverage



good luck

[chev49]

I live next door to a rural fire station and the volunteers also act like normal people and put out the fire, but when a large one happens and the town guys show up, the town guys mostly "supervise"... However, fires on the farms, often take up to a half hour or so to respond to, and building usually burn down, as they have two water trucks, and they gotta get to the station - and drive several miles doing so, and get dressed and open the sheds, etc...

On the other hand, if there is a medical emergency, the volunteer emt ones, do a little, and wait for the ambulance to show up from town. 

And, the local fire station has the old fire engines in a neighbors shed down the road.. some day they will make nice restoration projects...

[artvonne]

.I would fight the insurance company on this one. Would really like to know the insurance company.


Rick

  No kidding. Maybe we should start putting some conditions of our own on our checks to these outfits.

[boogiethecat]

There was a great study, I think it was in Sweden (??) about putting out bus engine fires... turns out that opening the engine doors to fight the fire was one of the worst things you could do, because that action let in a lot more oxygen to feed the flames, usually to 'out of control" proportions.
  They found that a much better idea was to build in little 6 inch square "fire control" doors here and there, that they could open and stick in fire extinguishers... that way the fire retardant, whatever it was, could easily get in, but not as much oxygen could get in, and the fire was much more quickly and easily controlled.

I built my first bus back in 1980 when the internet and ebay didn't exist; the only source of goodies was RV junkyards.  I scrounged many of them.  Virtually every RV in those yards was totaled due to interior fire, and most of them looked like an engine fire had started, the owner lifted the bonnet to attempt putting it out, and the fire instantly ate the entire interior of the RV.

Food for thought...  I can't imagine how many RV's could have been saved had they been equipped with those little doors....and had this guy's engine compartment been built this way, the bikes probably wouldn't have mattered...

[artvonne]

  Best is not to let it catch fire in the first place, but if it happens, have a plan. Most anywhere you would be, its going to take some time for a dept to get there. And in a fire, especially a vehicle fire, time is not your friend. And yeah, probably not having a half a dozen bikes chained and cable locked over the doors would be a big help.