Captains chairs with integrated shoulder belts

[Aussiecoach]

Hi fellow Busnuts

I am from Australia and always read your forum and get lots of good ideas, thankyou

I am at the stage of buying some swivel captains chairs with integrated belt and am having some trouble getting information from the ones I have found. My mate and I want to buy 7 of these

So far I have found
Discountvantruck
Villa/Kustomfit
Flexsteel

It has been my experience that the above either will not sell direct to me or they will not provide me their seat approval details.
I need a copy of their seat approval info so I can get them compared to Australian design rules (ADR) to get approval to use the seats in my bus here in Aus.

Does any know of any other little guy friendly captains chairs manufacturers or have any contacts that could help me get the information and purchase from the ones I mention. I actually like the Discountvantruck ones and have read in other threads they are not a bad seat

Hoping someone has some contacts

thanx
Glen

[buswarrior]

The General Motors sport utility vehicles have come with built-in seat belts here in North America, did they show up down there in similar configuration?

Vehicles we call Suburban, Yukon, Tahoe, Escalade, Denali, and their permutations.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Aussiecoach]

Hi Buswarrior, unfortunately we don't much of the good stuff down here. A few Suburbans made it but very very few

thanx
glen

[RJ]

Glen -

As Buswarrior said, check out the General Motors vehicles in your neck of the woods.  (Holden, etc.)  You might find some later model (2000+) seats with the integrated belts.  Besides the stateside SUVs, Cadillacs and Buicks also have them.

Not sure if Ford and/or Chrysler are down there, but also take a peek at the "high end" Toyotas and Nissans.  Pretty common nowadays in the upscale vehicles.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[bevans6]

What approvals do you need?  Over here, automotive seats and mounts usually need FMVSS or CMVSS approval.  I have heard, although I can't prove it without some work, that aftermarket seat suppliers won't supply an integrated shoulder belt seat since they can't guarantee the mount is sufficient.  The seats that I see from aftermarket usually have the lap belts mounted to the seat pedestal, not the seat.  I would look into that a bit.

Brian

[Oonrahnjay]

Glen, automotive equipment in the US and Canada isn't "approved" by the Government; the manufacturer must self-certify that the item meets the applicable standard.  For seat assemblies, the requirement is Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 207 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/octqtr/pdf/49cfr571.207.pdf ) or CMVSS 207 in Canada, which is identical.  Similarly, seat belt anchorages must meet FMVSS/CMVSS 210 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/octqtr/pdf/49cfr571.210.pdf ).  Parts and components are required to be marked "DOT", either on the item itself or its packaging.

Government people involved in this kind of thing are notoriously unhelpful and intractable but you could ask if the authorities that administer the ADR's will accept FMVSS 207 and 210 certification.  If not, you're probably not going be have any way to proceed.

[bottomacher]

If the original manufacturer didn't provide a seat belt, how can the government require it now? I'm not putting airbags in my model A for anyone...

[morefire]

I just bought 4 of these for my Motorhome build,  they are awesome!!
you can not beat this price for a pair...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320748351069?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[robertglines1]

David: thanks for idea. They build that Toyota about 35 miles from house and seat factory is close by.  Maybe 2Nd's for me.    Bob

[artvonne]

If the original manufacturer didn't provide a seat belt, how can the government require it now? I'm not putting airbags in my model A for anyone...

 I think we've reached an era where the Govt. can do whatever the heck it wants. If they cant, Kalifornia surely can. Kali won't even recognize Federal emissions standards. If you have an older car, even if it meets the limits prescribed when it was new, California has set new standards of their own based on the lowest numbers they ever pulled off that particular make and model. And if they can ban Trucks by year, its only a short time before they start banning older cars.

 I also tend to think that a seat belt incorporated into the seat is a bad idea unless the mounting of the seat into the floor is very well engineered and robust. The torque on the seat with a passenger in even a light collision would be enormous, and if it broke free, would likely be far worse than not having any belt at all.

[Oonrahnjay]

OK, guys, hold the phone.  The OP is in Australia.  Their government regulations are called "Australian Design Rules" (or "ADR's").  It's been a long time since I certified anything for sale in Australia but I'm pretty sure that unless he (and his friend) gets ADR certification, they wouldn't be able to get seats through Customs in Australia and wouldn't be able to get their vehicle inspected and licensed.  I'm pretty sure that Australia is a bit more stringent on things than N. American authorities are -- that's the way that the world is. 

[Aussiecoach]

Thanx to everyone for the replies and ideas. I am after the comfy lounge type chairs as they will be used as lounge chairs when not going down the road. I allready have some BMW 3series convertible seats with integrated belt for the driver and passenger up front. I plan to put 3 of the captains chairs across the bus in a row behind the drivers seat and have them swivel and then be lounge chairs.

Oonrahnjay seems to have some experience with the ADR's and is correct, Did you have anything to do with seats?. Basically The seats themselves need to match our Design regulations and then the mounting of the seats need to be approved by an engineer that has sign of with our DOT equivalant. As has been said not much sense in putting a seatbelted seat witha ll that weight strapped into it and then having it just screwed into the plywood floor.

To get the ADR approval on the seat I can do it two ways, get it crash tested with a load and see haow it fairs or get the testspecs and results of the manufacturer for the particular model chair and if it matches or exceeds the Australin regs then I'm good to go (after paying the engineer for his signature of course)

So it is  a company that makes a good product and will provide the test documentation that I am seeking. Kustomfit have done it in the past for a company that used to import and certify them but they no longer do and Kustomfit don't seem to want to talk to me.
Interesting that the the companises are basically self certify, but I guess the larger ones test their products to be sure they are covered.

Any further help or leads apprecited

[Oonrahnjay]

     Unfortunately, US liability laws now say that if a manufacturing company releases specs and assists a private person in installing items, then the company can be held responsible if people are hurt in an accident.  And if people are riding in a vehicle and there's an accident -- even if there's no failure or involvement of the component -- then the "ambulance chaser" lawyers will be filing lawsuits against the company.  Even if the company is held not liable, the legal costs can be enormous.  I'm sure that the lawyers that advise the manufacturing companies are screaming at management and engineering groups NOT to release any engineering data or test results.  I'm sorry that that's the way that it is and it will make things difficult for you, but that's just the way that business is structured in the US now.   I hope that you can find some way around this but if I had to guess, I'd guess that it will be difficult.

[Jeremy]

Would sourcing seats from a European or Asian manufacturer be an option? Presumably you've considered that but there's a particular reason why you're looking for an American supplier.


Jeremy

[Aussiecoach]

Hi Jeremy

I'm open to suggestions for European and Asian manufactured seats. I was only looking at American ones as that is mostly what I have seen over here and our dollar is pretty good against the American at present.

I have seen FASP (I think that is it) that have been approved here but they don't appear to be the big comfy type as the American ones are, look more like van style motorhome seats. I know a guy who got some from Turkey (great looking seat made for a luxury type coach) but he got them crash tested and they failed.

If you know of any, Id be very happy to hear about them

Cheerz
Glen