Anyone used their bus to haul Boy Scouts?

[belfert]

I'm considering using my bus to haul a group of Boy Scouts from Minneapolis to Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico next summer.  Has anyone done this before?  The Guide to Safe Scouting really doesn't seem to cover motorhomes.

My main concern is the section that says something about vehicles over 10,000lbs requiring drivers to have CDLs even though not commercial.  A CDL requirement would kill this plan for sure.

The Scouts only allow travel time of 10 hours a day no matter how many drivers which makes it difficult to do the drive in two days.  It would take right at 20 hours if the bus averaged 60 MPH.  We would like to be at Philmont the night before even though you don't have to arrive until lunch time.  The group leaders have even considered having parents drive to the Iowa border before meeting as a group, but that seems silly to me.

I would travel with, but I would fly home in between as I have no interest in the actual trip.

[gumpy]

Suggest you contact your insurance agent and ask how they feel about that idea. I suspect they'll change your mind about it.

Also, I believe if you start asking questions of the state, you'll find that type of usage is considered commercial and will require a CDL, among other commercial operations
issues. I don't know that for sure, but I think the state patrol would make a case and you'd have to disprove it in court. If you got stopped and they disagree with you,
you will effectively be stopped and not allowed to continue on. You'd then have to hire a commercial bus to deliver the troop, and your bus would be shut down until
you comply with their requirements.

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea.

[Chopper Scott]

Probably not a good idea with today's regulations. Worse case if something bad happened. Maybe BK will show up and help you with an answer. He gets to haul cheerleaders and bikini swim team groups around but he has the endorsements.....

[belfert]

The number of youth and adults is well below the number at which commercial licensing is required.  I've had as many friends along in the bus for a trip to a rocket launch.  I don't know how it would be any different than a 12 passenger van.

At this point, I'm not sure if Boy Scout rules would allow use of a motorhome.  It seems strange they would allow packing up to 12 people in a 12 passenger van, but a motorhome would not be allowed.  I doubt this will happen, but we'll see where it goes.

[Lonnie time to go]

IF your getting paid its commercial.

You must have a CDL and be commercial

Real simple

I could be wrong but I don't think so

Kind of stinks knowing you want to help.

Lonnie

[buswarrior]

In my younger days, I'd have done it.

But if something goes wrong, your insurance will disown you, and then you have two fights to the bankruptcy on your hands.

A rental van would be a safer bet, and keep'r moving!

As for the 10 hours and driving to the border, you wouldn't believe the silly things that have been done to circumvent regulations in the transportation industry. Cab over trucks come to mind....

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[luvrbus]

Brian, I used my bus in the Angel Bus network when Bill Connor was still alive my insurance co did not have a problem with me transporting people they just told me to keep it under 15 me included 

good luck

[Lin]

We certainly can speculate, but it seems the best thing to do is contact your insurance company and highway patrol.  If they say it's fine, do your best to get it in writing.  That should not be a problem with the insurance.  For the highway patrol, you may have to make do with a photocopy of the appropriate law and the officers name.

[Busted Knuckle]

Brian I personally have no objections to YOU doing it.

But I suspect if any local operators heard of it they would be highly against it.

I have bid numerous trips out to Philmont and never gotten the first one. (I'd love to go just once!)

As far as the ins & DOT go all I can say is your @ the mercy of the parents and the state and god should something bad happen! (and we all pray it doesn't)

I'd say be sure and ask the insurance company and even have a lawyer draw up a liability disclaimer showing that you are NOT doing this for hire and releasing you from ANY damages not resulting from your direct negligence! Have each parent sign one and enjoy the trip.

JMHO
 BK  

[Jeremy]

At this point, I'm not sure if Boy Scout rules would allow use of a motorhome.  It seems strange they would allow packing up to 12 people in a 12 passenger van, but a motorhome would not be allowed.  

A 12 passenger van will have proper seating for 12 passengers. A motorhome almost certainly won't

A friend once arranged (before asking me) for me to transport a group of other friends in my bus, and got a bit upset when I told her that there was no way it was going to happen. For one thing it was a Construction and Use offense as my bus was an empty shell at the time ("They won't mind sitting on the floor" she said), but more importantly you're in serious licence-losing territory if you get stopped when carrying more than 10 passengers without the appropriate license endorsement here.

In your case, if it is legal and the insurance company are happy etc, I would also go the extra step of getting the parents or guardians of each child to sign a waiver in your benefit.

Jeremy

[niles500]

I've had many people travel as guests in my coach - And many have tried to reimburse me for time, fuel etc. - I politely reject their gracious offers and remind them their my guests and 'my insurance company' would consider that compensation - I also have offered my bus at charity auctions with the caveat that they are invited guests, not paying customers (their donation goes directly to the charity involved) - more than once I've had rowdy 'guests' claim they 'paid for the bus' and I must remind them they are guests - I don't know how my insurance company would deal with a claim or what a Personal Injury Attorney would attempt to do to me, but I always maintain my right to dis-invite those who do not obey/understand the rules - In this world I'm not sure I'm covered but I do the best I can - FWIW

[RICH GREGG]

Check with the scoutmaster a tour permit must be filed to do a outing like this through district their local council whatever at that point bsa takes over the liability for personal injury but  you better  make sure Richard

[belfert]

The Boy Scouts have changed from the tour permit to the tour plan.  I haven't filled out a tour permit in years since they started to not require them if the camp was owned by the local council or the trip was entirely within the borders of the local council.  Anyhow, I reviewed the tour plan form earlier today, and it mentions drivers needing CDLs only if the vehicle has a passenger capacity of more than 15 passengers. 

I still very much doubt this will happen, but if the group wants to move forward I will probably have someone from the local council look at the vehicle to see if it meets the requirements.

I don't think insurance would be a problem.  Parents drive scouts in private vehicles all the time.  We used to have a family that owned a 15 passenger van that helped haul Scouts to events.

[kyle4501]

As for seat count in your bus, there are two ways to count seats. If you can sit on it then it obviously can be used as a seat when parked.

However, for it to count as a seat while in motion, it needs to have a proper seat belt.

If your bus has 14 seat belts, then the Boy Scouts will be fine with it.

Seat belt requirements get fuzzy when you have 'compartmentalized seating' like a standard tour bus. If lawyers are involved, you don't want to provide them with any fuzzys.


Having passangers sign a release waiver would be a very good idea.

I know from personal experience that helping the Boy Scouts is one of the most rewarding things you can ever do. 

[luvrbus]

I donated a lot of time,money,machinery and labor to BSA at the Zink ranch in Ok then one day it stopped for me when I found out they paid the CEO over $1,500,000 a year that one just took my breath away

I never went back and I moved all the equipment out I felt like they used me a man trying to help young men and a guy making that kind of money in fact I had bought the camp a Maytag Neptune washer and drier system it pissed me off so bad I took it home   

good luck.