MCI 102DL3 vs. MC9

[luvrbus]

I don't care for the retarder on a B500. At least the ones I have driven have an abrupt on and off, even at the lowest setting. Plus it heats up the transmission really fast and hot. I'll take Jakes any time.

The 6 speed B500 is great, and smooth. If you like shifting gears, the 7 speed manual Eaton Fuller is also really good. 1st gear is really low, and will climb a tree at idle. With a pre EGR 12.7 S60, it takes a big hill to have to down shift out of 7th. A manual will be tough to resell, because very few people want a manual anymore.

JC

I don't use the retarder on my B500 I like the Jakes best

[windtrader]

Thanks. My research, as well as common sense, indicates the Series 60 is a more easily serviced plant over the older 2-strokes. More current design so more true experienced diesel mechanics, more plentiful parts, maybe less costly to operate both in terms of service cost and better mileage.

There are some available in the $15k target which really has perked my interest in the newer motor/tranny options.

Naturally, there are fewer used conversions based on this combination so harder to find one if deciding to get one already converted.  At this point (2017), other than more costly purchase up front, what pros/benefits remain to choose an older 2-stroke based bus?

Thanks again

[buswarrior]

The choice of engine type for a busnut is secondary to engine condition.

No matter what you buy, if you have to do an engine re-build, the project just went completely upside down financially.

If not a complete financial ruin, and project abandonment.

Pick a coach that will do the job you need it to do.

That said, if there is an uninformed stampede away from 2 strokes, those "unfortunate" coaches will have some big value in them.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[sledhead]

I had the 102c3 with the 6v92ta ddec set at 350 hp and liked the 40' and the 6'10" . was a easy build but if I would do it today yes the 94-95 102d ( 40 ') with a cat or a 60 series  and the 6 speed auto would be my choice . I did not want to put that kind of $$$ into a conversion again so thats why I have a store bought rv now and love the power and yes pre egr is nice

dave

[luvrbus]

Believe it or not 2 stroke DD engines are not emission exempt in the Phoenix area like CA, it not that hard to get one to pass if in 1/2 way good shape though lol I gotten a few by by a thin hair.Good thing about a series 60 if it was ever in a authorized DD dealer it will be on record and with a Pro/Link it will weed out the not so honest sellers , the computer (ECM) tells all    

[chessie4905]

You need to think seriously whether you need to have a 45 footer over 40. Even though it can steer as well as a 40, it is still awfully long. Campsites and in smaller rural  towns....If you only run interstates and avoid shopping centers...Maybe. Yeah, I know, charter companies do it all the time. When I went to the 4905, I missed some of the manuverability of the 4104. Especially rural roads in New England.

[windtrader]

I did not want to put that kind of $$$ into a conversion again so thats why I have a store bought rv now ...

Meaning it would be less costly and faster to go with a factory built RV? I hear loudly and often the warning to all who will listen that taking on a DIY conversion is a costly and lengthy project that is hardly a guarantee it will even see the road . I'm needing more convincing but at this point still feel I can build in what I want without undue cost (not necessarily cheaper) or time. I do plan on doing all the coach work myself and gradually pick up some of the mechanical service tasks.

Good thing about a series 60 if it was ever in a authorized DD dealer it will be on record and with a Pro/Link it will weed out the not so honest sellers , the computer (ECM) tells all    

Good to know. Once recorded with Pro/Link does the ECM log continue recording including recent events and status? It seems that would be really valuable to know the condition of the sensored components.

Yes, really leaning toward 35' or 40' max. Just don't feel the need for more space nor increased usage hassles.  Another thread does pose the question about length. Based on research and my needs, a 45' is at the bottom of the list. Even a 40' like the D series may not be necessary.  

The 4107 in mind is older of course but the length feels adequate but I know the extra 5' and 102" width would make a measurable difference. The specific bus is unusual that the owner for the past 10 years has a suitcase of documentation and logs and very open to have any inspection or additional road tests done. Clearly, nothing to hide and no surprise bus is in really good shape.

[RJ]

The 4107 in mind is older of course...

NAME??

I hated the 4107/4108s in the charter company's fleet I worked for, and it wasn't because of poor maintenance - it was because they were a huge PITA to drive when it was really windy.

The tall sides on the short wheelbase became a big sail that would often have you changing lanes without your permission! Loading the bus with 35 passengers upstairs and no luggage down below resulted in wallowing along the road like a drunken fool - which became even worse if the wind started blowing...(Think the crosswinds on I-80 around Fairfield,)

And then there was the kneecap-destroying dashboard switch panel...

OTOH, this model's big brother, the 4905, rode/drove like a dream comparatively. The extra five feet of wheelbase, plus anti-roll bars front and rear, made all the difference in the world.

FWIW & HTH...

[chessie4905]

We added a 4905 anti roll bar to our 4104. We needed to do a little fabrication to brackets but well worth it.

[sledhead]

if you can find a already converted coach that you like you can rip out the inside and re do as you like . this way a lot of the things you need are already there and will save a TON of $$ and time . why I went back to a store bought rv was a found a high end unit ( at a very low price ) with the slide , engine, transmission and all the parts needed already there . it was our choice to RIP out the interior and rebuild with what was there the way we wanted it . at a very low cost ( $ 2000 for the rip out , redo + 8  tires at $ 3400 ) yes I would have rather had a bus but at the level of what I got ( rv ) it was way more $ then I wanted to spend . there are lots of bus conversions out there or high end rvs that have been not used or neglected and have been sitting for some time and the people will take a lot less then the add is asking for .
the 1st bus I converted was a lot of money spent and never got back but was very happy with the price I got for it when we sold it.
I did not want to have a 45' coach but have adjusted for it . but there is more room and my wife does like that . as for driving it over the 40' coach it is about the same other then it is way way faster up the hills . as for state parks yes it is a pain in the a$$ to get in and out and there are a lot of sites we can't get into . so if you can I would go with a 40 ' coach with a newer engine , transmission

dave

[luvrbus]

I did some research the D model has the largest number of units ever produced by MCI over 12,000 since 1994 so they should start dropping in price even more as the cities like Houston Metro starts selling off their older DL,Houston just ordered another 165 D's from MCI   

[daddysgirl]

I am biased, so my opinion will be also.
I have MC8 and 10' of clearance to back into my driveway. It steers, turns, and backs up as easily as a car. The radiator scoops are under appreciated for backing purposes. Dad was 6'5" and never had headroom issues.
I, of course, would go for the MC9 between those choices. But, you have to make the choice based on what is sensible to you. I would only add that the more stainless steel the better. I prefer it to fiberglass.