This is What a Ruined 8V71TA Looks Like...........

[Ed Hackenbruch]

I worked in 4 rock quarries at one time or another over the last 30 years and none of them had anything with an OB on them.

[luvrbus]

That is not really a fact about GM buses used only oil bath filters you see the 4905A with both
JohnEd I think someone is pulling your leg about oil baths on 3408 I owned 2 back in the 80's those engines have been gone for awhile now.
Equipment is about the only diesel engine you will find around a Quarry except the generator those thing have been electric since the light bulb.
Tell us what farm equipment manufacturers use the oil bath I never heard that one before
Get your hands dirty and disassemble a 2 stroke with a oil bath filter and one with a good paper huge difference between the 2
The old oil baths are a thing of the past look at the difference in the life span of a engine now with paper filters.
We all have opinions but oil baths are junk and expensive to service , my service guy could pop a new filter in a piece of equipment in 5 mins and be gone try that with a old oil bath.
In todays money with the cost of labor and down time on a piece of equipment it would be around 400 bucks but they have their place and that is on the water where you have no dust lol

good luck

[Kevinmc5]

Derrick, Be carefull That's about the same size peaces that came out of my blower that just took out my motor in the 4106 I just got. Would not want you to go through what I did. I would get it checked. Good Luck and safe travels.
Kevin

[thomasinnv]

Derrick, Be carefull That's about the same size peaces that came out of my blower that just took out my motor in the 4106 I just got. Would not want you to go through what I did. I would get it checked. Good Luck and safe travels.
Kevin

No, I definitely don't need that. I did a visual inspection of the blower and did not see any problems, and the screws were not loose and no excessive end play or side to side play or anything like that. I do think the piece came from the sleeve, but couldn't say for sure.When I get down to Clifford's in a few months I plan on having him take a look at the blower to see if it is R&R time. The piece was not aluminum, and it was not bearing material either. It was definitely some type of casting material.

[JohnEd]

I worked in 4 rock quarries at one time or another over the last 30 years and none of them had anything with an OB on them.

Well you are two quarries up on me and I am tapped out.  I never set foot in one nor have I turned a wrench on a D other than a Ford 7.?

I was clear when I pointed out that it wasn't my lie.....I was just repeating it.  I don't think I proved they are used nor do I think you proved that they are not.  I just mean that as a fact....friendly like...observation.

John

[chev49]

Probably acorns...

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Not trying to come down on you John, just telling what i have seen.

[artvonne]

Okay Clifford, you have me somewhat convinced a paper filter is better. Brian, how hard was it to remove the original air box? Is there room in there for a large enough element?

[Mex-Busnut]

Very interesting discussion for sure.

My only experience with an oilbath air filter was my old 1963 190D four-door Mercedes Benz sedan, similar to the one in this picture. And I sure hated the cleaning of that filter!

[bevans6]

removing the original oil bath airbox on my MCI was easy, except that it's very heavy.  I did it when my engine was out so I had extremely easy access.  To start, you remove the tubes to the compressor and the air horn on top of the blower, then you remove four 5/16" screws, two across the front flange, two at the rear flange, that hold the whole assembly up to the roof of the engine bay, then you get out from under it as it crashed down on your head.  That last bit is the hardest part...

It leaves a very large space that could hold a large Donaldson type air filter.  Just above the side door to the compartment is an access to the stock air intake from in front of the radiator.  You could re-use that, or work out some other cool air intake system.

Brian

[artvonne]

 Thanks Brian, Ill take a look at it. 

 

[JohnEd]

That is not really a fact about GM buses used only oil bath filters you see the 4905A with both

I rarely say things like "it never happened".  I know GM used the OB into the 70's only because i have peered into the engine bay and seen them.  Exact year.....dunno.  Not that important to me.  I'll let you split those hairs about what year they stopped.LOL.  I think you make my point.

JohnEd I think someone is pulling your leg about oil baths on 3408 I owned 2 back in the 80's those engines have been gone for awhile now.

Speaking of leg pulling, I'll let you argue the point with the service manager at Peterson Cat in Eugene.  I don't have a dog in the fight. LOL

Equipment is about the only diesel engine you will find around a Quarry except the generator those thing have been electric since the light bulb.

That isn't clear.  Electric has always been more reliable and efficient for fixed equip.  On the other hand, that "tricity" comes from on-site D generators if the grid won't reach.  All the rolling stock is D powered and it works in a dusty environment.


Tell us what farm equipment manufacturers use the oil bath I never heard that one before.

There are a couple reasons to say "I never heard of that".  One is egotistical where you infer that if you ain't heard it it ain't true.  May not apply here or to you Cilfford.  It took me all of 4 minutes to prove you wrong to my satisfaction.  4 minutes.  Dumb luck, I guess.  First call wa sot our local farm equip sales and service and I asked what equip he serviced used OB air filters.  He answered that all the Deutz powered "bailers" were equipped with oil bath air filters.  Sorry Clifford.  I didn't "get ya on that....you got you"  Well now you heard about it from the mouth of the local FarmAll dealer.  That same service rep also said they had had a NEW as in Brand New tractor in for pre delivery service and it was equipped with an OB filter.  That mech was off on Friday and the rest of the crew didn't remember the Mfr. and I figured I had stretched them far enough on a scavenger hunt.

I called the FarmAll out in the Columbia Gorge...farm land.  I got the salesman on hs cell cause the service manager said if he answered he would be happy to talk to a Eugenian.  OK, he was pulling my leg and I caught on right quick, Clifford.  I asked my OB question and what i heard was "All deutz two storke, air cooled, fixed engines come equipped with with OB filter.  Can't even get them with paper."  Duh, why? (guess who said that?)  Well it seems that the 2 stroke Deutz is a favorite for remote electrical generators and pumps.  Farmers aren't the only ones known for their mechanical skills or religious adherence to PM stuff.  He went on to share that a D that runs rich will have a cooling problem and eventually burn up because of it.  Air cooled engines are sensitive to over-heating problems.  NOW....it seems that a dirty paper filter will be restrictive and take the engine to rich and destruction.  He made the point that a unserviced OB was just as free flowing when dirty as clean.  It tolerated abuse and didn't take the engine out.  Whoa, said I, you sound like you sell those things you know so much about OB filters and all.  Mind you I was talking to the Farm all salesman that also handles Deutz for central Or. I guess.  I must have spoken to 6 people and each one treated me better than the last....what a pleasant journey of discovery.

Not to be discouraged, I went on ebay and searched for used Deutz D engines.  i found some that I am fairly certain had OB filters hanging on their sides.  One is a 2001 made 36KW genney with a nice compact OB oil filter hanging on the front and the seller comments that the gen us designed to run at remote locations for extended periods unattended.  Can't prove it by me but I am starting to see a pattern emerge.  Dirty environment....OB.   2 stroke....OB  air cooled engine....OB  Remote unattended...OB.
 
Get your hands dirty and disassemble a 2 stroke with a oil bath filter and one with a good paper huge difference between the 2

I serviced my OB filter twice till i caught on that the thing was going to run forever and need little attention from me except the annual adding of a couple ounces of oil.  I used to stick my "fanger" down into the oil to test how deep the crud was....then I put it together and spun on the wing nut and tightened the 10 MM bolt and had a beer to celebrate a fine days work.

The old oil baths are a thing of the past look at the difference in the life span of a engine now with paper filters.

Actually, I have wondered about exactly that.  But, not the way you stated it.  I had always heard that the DD 2 stroke was good for 350Kmiles easy but would go 500.  Drank fuel and had cooling issues after 350K.  That sounds familiar in some ways to some of the things I hear today.  The other thing I hear is that the 8V92 is often shot at 150K miles.  I see lots of buses advertised as having been rebuilt at 130 or 150 K miles.  All these modern buses use DE filters and I ponder the connection....if there is any.

I know the 60 series and big Cummins go close to a million miles with DE, as does most everything.

The OB filters are a modern item still being sold and serviced.  I found them alive and well in the farming and industrial sector.  Thriving, actually, and enjoying a hugely positive reputation. 


We all have opinions but oil baths are junk and expensive to service

There is a line of Chinese trucks, they look great on pics, and all seem to be cab-over.  They are advertised as having oil bath air filters.  The adds are worded Heavy Hauler model XXXX with standard OIL BATH AIR FILTER.   Boy are they ever proud of that filter and from the way their adds are assembled I think they are talking to customers that feel the same way.  With the weight and cost delta being what it is you could make a bundle consulting for those guys, Clifford.  "Long live paper element filters". LOL, Buddy.  Their intended market is one of the harshest on the planet....Goby desert, Australia Outback, Aisia, Siberia and south America.

, my service guy could pop a new filter in a piece of equipment in 5 mins and be gone try that with a old oil bath.

Took me less than that ti stick my finger in the oil resovoir and determine I didn't have a chore yey.  Maybe 5 minutes....maybe......but way cheaper than the paper.  Element,. that is cause I did use a piece of paper to wipe my "fanger".  Paper has its place.

In todays money with the cost of labor and down time on a piece of equipment it would be around 400 bucks but they have their place and that is on the water where you have no dust lol

good luck

Thanks for the good wishes, Clifford and right back atcha LOL

Now I can cross the isle on this with a simple observation.  The OB is closely designed to a specific air flow.  The delta in air flow volumes has gone through the roof with the advent of the turbo.  Even with the 8V71 the air filtration at idle was headed to the marginal performance area at idle.  The turbo equipped engines gulp huge quantities of air at their highest operating RPM and the turbo manifold pressures seem to be on the rise since they were first offered.  If they are designed to operate efficiently at the highest air thru-0put then the filtration will be marginal at idle.  If you design for the middle then the filter will be starting to become restrictive at high output.  Gens and pumps typically operate at one speed and then shut down so the OB seems optimum.  I would like to see the design of the new Chinese trucks as their engines are quite large and turbo'd and they must have dealt effectively with the problem.  Got any sources for info on that Clifford?




Insert Quote
Come on Ed,, confess,, you've allways wanted to be an instructor haven't you??>>>D

I taught in the Military...class room and OJT.  HUGELY SATISFYING!  I taught young men "to fish" if you follow.

I taught the repair crews in the overhaul depot.  Productivity went up 20 fold and we put all the other depots around the world out of business and saved the Gummint/Navy many millions per year.  That system is still being used and that was in 75.  And yes, I do look the Paymaster in the eye when he gives me my check.  Directly in the eye.

I taught on site operation and repair of Satellite Navigation Systems.  I was never once in three years called back to a ship because they had a failure they couldn't clear or encountered situations where they couldn't operate the system. The average was one trouble call and visit by a rep in the first 14 days of an installation.  After that, most needed a visit every 8 weeks.  Was I proud of that?  OMG yes.  I wrote lesson plans for the operators class and for the techs. I left that training material with the ship so they could train their replacements.  It was never promulgated to my peers though I submitted copies with my field reports after I discovered I was the only one doing these things.  I completed an installation in 2.5 days and was allocated 14.  My peers averaged 9 to 11 days.  There were "trouble case ships" that always seemed to need help.  The sailors were blamed by the Sand Crabs.  My bosses would route me to those ships and I would spend a day training.....no more messages that read "it's broke and i don't have a clue".  After that they marched proud and i got messages like "Send me module 1A3A15...ASAP".

Am I proud of my achievements and contribution?  Intensely!  And if you read this post carefully, you now know where the bear pooped in the Buckwheat.

Be well and happy,

John

[Utahclaimjumper]

 FOR CRISTS SAKE JOHN,, GIVE IT A BREAK!!>>>D

[luvrbus]

Need to look up air filters for Deutz John and see what you come up with that bs about all Deutz using oil bath I have never seen one using a oil bath,and who ever told you the Deutz was a 2 stroke engine is smoking some good stuff I heard they grow in Oregon lol

good luck

[trucktramp]

removing the original oil bath airbox on my MCI was easy, except that it's very heavy.  I did it when my engine was out so I had extremely easy access.  To start, you remove the tubes to the compressor and the air horn on top of the blower, then you remove four 5/16" screws, two across the front flange, two at the rear flange, that hold the whole assembly up to the roof of the engine bay, then you get out from under it as it crashed down on your head.  That last bit is the hardest part...

It leaves a very large space that could hold a large Donaldson type air filter.  Just above the side door to the compartment is an access to the stock air intake from in front of the radiator.  You could re-use that, or work out some other cool air intake system.

Brian

Brian, what did/are you doing for the new air box?  I have been thinking about doing away with the oil bath system for some time now.