Full Timer's Insurance Options?

technomadia · July 01, 2011, 10:38:44 PM

Quote from: rv_safetyman on July 01, 2011, 06:19:18 AM
Cherie and Chris, your comment really bothered me. I have often recommended Miller as a broker that understands and works well with bus owners.

Your situation of running your business out of your bus, may have raised a flag. I talked to them at length, since we, like many folks, use our bus as a mobile office. They said that as long as there is no signage on the side of the bus and no "foot traffic" into the bus, they have no problem with insuring a bus that is used as a mobile office.

I wish it were true that they were friendly and supportive folks, but that is definitely the opposite of our experience with them.

I put in a quote request via their website, and left a note that with that we had been referred to them via Escapees & BCM as creative folks for these types of situations, and we were open to any and all suggestions for solutions (including forming a LLC or trust). We initially got a flat-out 'this agency can not place insurance for this risk' message from someone named Maureen. She mentioned that we weren't allowed to live in our bus full-time AND run a business (uhh... excuse me, who are you to tell me what I can and can't do with my life???).

We replied stating that there was no signage, no foot traffic, no client visits, etc. - and that 'business use' would be a gross exaggeration for two geeks who are on laptops all day. She said that part was ok (and virtually slapped our hands for marking 'is this vehicle used in conjunction with a business or professions?' on the request form - sorry, I will always err on the side of authenticity), but alas, there were absolutely no insurance companies that would insure a bus without an appraisal except Progressive, and they required we have a second vehicle. (Note, at no point did we say we wouldn't get an appraisal, or wouldn't be getting a vehicle or were closed off to any ideas.)

No offering of advice on what we needed to do get insured (ie. buy another vehicle, get an appraisal, form a LLC, etc.), no follow-up to get additional clarification of our situation, etc.. Just a flat out 'we can't really can't help you, good-bye' - with a strong vibe of 'leave us alone already'.

I was very turned off, upset and disappointed in how we were treated - and absolutely would not recommend at least their web/e-mail side as 'friendly and supportive' folks. Instead of continuing to argue with her, we just dropped it and moved on. If they want to continue being portrayed being 'friendly and supportive' to full-timers in bus conversions, they have a long way to go in offering potential customer support. We certainly won't be recommending them to our many followers.

- Cherie

oldmansax · July 02, 2011, 04:09:13 AM

Quote from: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 10:38:44 PM
I was very turned off, upset and disappointed in how we were treated - and absolutely would not recommend at least their web/e-mail side as 'friendly and supportive' folks. Instead of continuing to argue with her, we just dropped it and moved on. If they want to continue being portrayed being 'friendly and supportive' to full-timers in bus conversions, they have a long way to go in offering potential customer support. We certainly won't be recommending them to our many followers.

- Cherie

I think sometimes the "old line" companies have perfected their customer service skills in person but are sadly lacking on the web/email side. Some of my customers jumped headlong into websites & online marketing without having a plan to handle the requests. That's not an excuse for this company, as I know nothing about them. Just a general observation.

TOM

saddleup · July 02, 2011, 06:19:36 AM

Have you checkout statefarm in South Dakota, i have them here in Nevada, no problems,good rate, but i have all my rigs thru them for thirty years, i never say the word bus to them always RV .
I keep my replacement value realistic , when we first got our RV we took to them and they took Pict. to send

to underwriters, no problem, less than 500. a year full coverage including glass.
Good luck
Matt

luvrbus · July 02, 2011, 06:20:57 AM

Wonder what is going on I know Progressive is doing some weird stuff now I just got my new policy and they changed things around and told I Miller to find me someone else so she is trying
.FWIW my new policy stated clearly I could not live in the RV for over 6 months each year never before did it have that in the fine print
I been with Miller for years John and the daughter have always given me the best service available to them hate to hear this but I do it with a phone call I am not into the internet for insurance service so I'll probably be with Miller till I die lol.
You mention LLC or corporation then you become commercial a different can of worms the insurance co's watch that some times
I have trouble with our homeowners policy because of our trust have to go through a bunch of bs about every 3 years with the same co that we have had for over 20 years

good luck

chev49 · July 02, 2011, 07:14:49 AM

After seeing how Progressive deals with customer claims, there is no way I would carry them. They show up fast, but cheap out...

technomadia · July 02, 2011, 10:19:33 AM

Quote from: oldmansax on July 02, 2011, 04:09:13 AM

I think sometimes the "old line" companies have perfected their customer service skills in person but are sadly lacking on the web/email side.

Totally agreed with this observation, Tom. For as much effort as Miller has put into their online request forms, their follow-up just didn't match up. We sent the request in after business hours, and left a phone number for them to call if they had questions. While we definitely prefer dealing with internet savvy companies whenever possible (part of that whole tech-nomad thing), we're not completely phone-phobic.

We are exploring every angle we can to find the best solution for our situation. We have what is apparently a unique situation - being younger, life partnered but unmarried (by choice), business owners, full-timers and an old bus that we want full-coverage on.

By the way, our agent explained to us that bus conversion is a sub-class of motorhome when dealing with insurance. And if you fail to disclose that you have a bus conversion when you get your policy quoted, you run the very real risk of having claims denied later on. GMAC confirmed this when she spoke to her contact here. So no, we will not withhold that information. We need to be as up front as possible about our situation, and be insured for such.

Hopefully we'll have news early in the week on what our options are.

- Cherie

luvrbus · July 02, 2011, 11:52:27 AM

Speaking with my Farm Bureau agent today he told me they have dropped all RV coverage to many claims in today's economy, he told me to many fires I am going to post what type lighting he called it but it was gasoline and a match.
If it wasn't for the good price I get on tires,batteries and oil etc I would drop Farm Bureau I never have the same underwriter for over 2 years in a row

good luck

oldmansax · July 02, 2011, 04:43:17 PM

Quote from: technomadia on July 02, 2011, 10:19:33 AM

By the way, our agent explained to us that bus conversion is a sub-class of motorhome when dealing with insurance. And if you fail to disclose that you have a bus conversion when you get your policy quoted, you run the very real risk of having claims denied later on.
- Cherie

I probably should not have talked you all out of a Wanderlodge!

BTY, now that you guys have bought your bus, there is a PT35 over on the Bird board that really looks nice for $5000. Owners died & nephew-in-law is settling the estate. That's just one more hazard of buying a bus: as soon as the money changes hands, there will be a better one, cheaper!

TOM

PP · July 03, 2011, 11:12:03 AM

Quote from: saddleup on July 02, 2011, 06:19:36 AM
Have you checkout statefarm in South Dakota, i have them here in Nevada, no problems,good rate, but i have all my rigs thru them for thirty years, i never say the word bus to them always RV .
I keep my replacement value realistic , when we first got our RV we took to them and they took Pict. to send

to underwriters, no problem, less than 500. a year full coverage including glass.
Good luck
Matt

Matt, I think you'll find that State Farm doesn't do a 'Fulltimer's' Policy.
We had SF for years, up until about 12 years ago when we went Fulltime. They dropped us like a hot potato. Progressive upped our policy each year, so we dropped them like a hot potato. We found a 'Fulltimer's' policy through AARP's Hartford Ins. based on replacement value with a 500 ded and contents coverage. The policy amount has dropped every year we've been with them. FWIW you have to be old to qualify LOL sorry, Will

technomadia · July 12, 2011, 02:46:36 PM

So.. here's our (now successful) insurance update!

Progressive: Progressive has told us they are canceling us on July 27, unless we purchase & insure another vehicle/scooter. They will not accept that we each carry a 'non-owners' liability policy with intentions of renting/borrowing vehicles when stopped for running local errands. Our agent was able to get them to drop the 50% 'multi family' premium increase for us being unmarried. In addition, Progressive will only cover our personal possessions up to $1000/each for a maximum of $13,000 (which doesn't help us much with our high end electronics, like laptops). And of course, Progressive only covers 'actual cash value' for older conversions.

GMAC: After much prodding from our agent, they have agreed to cover our bus for full-coverage (GMAC will typically only do liability for non-professional bus conversions), as we were able to provide them with our video tour and plenty of blog posts/photos showing the bus is a quality conversion. GMAC does not have penalties for non-married ownership, nor any requirements for owning a second vehicle. So this gives us more time to get comfortable driving the bus before rushing into buying something else. They'll also cover our personal possession for whatever level we wish to purchase at replacement cost, and coverage for the bus itself will be for market value inclusive of all the upgrades we add (solar, etc.).

*whew*

Solution found, and we're super super happy with our agency and the extra work they went to find us a solution - http://www.epic-ins.com .

- Cherie

luvrbus · July 12, 2011, 03:29:30 PM

Better read the fine print when you receive your policy from GMAC Art has it on is Eagle that caught fire here a couple of weeks ago they had a agreed value on his bus and it was a pro conversion they don't want to pay the value they agreed on because it was over 5 years since they updated the policy he knew nothing about the clause and they didn't inform him of it either and he has been paying the same x number of dollars thinking he was good watch the insurance co's.
I read his policy it doesn't apply to him but they go back 5 years and base the value on what the PO paid and what he sold it to you for kinda screwy to me but I am slow lol.
Progressive must have a totally different package for you fulltimers I have it on S&S full coverage cost me 300 bucks a year even has pet coverage and that is the only vehicle I have with them never have they mention another vehicle

good luck

technomadia · July 12, 2011, 04:30:00 PM

Quote from: luvrbus on July 12, 2011, 03:29:30 PM

Progressive must have a totally different package for you fulltimers I have it on S&S full coverage cost me 300 bucks a year even has pet coverage and that is the only vehicle I have with them never have they mention another vehicle

With the full-timer's policy, they are concerned that if you only own one vehicle (your motorhome) then you are using that for running all your errands too (not just moving between campgrounds). They don't care who the second vehicle is insured with, just that you have another one.

As we'll be doing massive additions to the bus over time, we'll be updating our policy regularly, saving receipts, photographing the work, etc.

See ya tomorrow, luvrbus!

- Cherie

Boomer · July 12, 2011, 09:09:03 PM

When my conversion was finished I obtained a policy quote from my long time agent (Progressive quote). Knowing about Miller for many years, and always hearing good things, I called them next. They were chipper and friendly, but their quote was waaay higher than my agents. I asked them who the carrier was and they said Progressive. I asked why so high for the same carrier and same coverage. They couldn't answer. Case closed with Miller.

demodriver · July 12, 2011, 09:20:32 PM

technomadia,
Have you guys considered allstate insurance? All of my insurance is thru them due to the fact that I have a very reliable and HONEST agent. He will do every thing to work for his customers. I can give you his contact info if your interested.

I dont full time but my full coverage is $600 a year and it covers $5k in contents plus the bus. I dont know if thats a good price but I am pertty happy with it.

Eric

technomadia · July 14, 2011, 01:50:43 PM

Thanks Eric.. as far as I'm aware, Allstate doesn't offer full-timers coverage, which we absolutely need. Our full coverage rate with GMAC is not much more than yours (around $700/yr) and covers $20k replacement cost of personal contents, full-timing coverage, roadside assistance/towing (with our CoachNet & AAA - we are now triple covered there), 250k/500k liability & uninsured motorist.

We're happy.. and moving on to shopping for other things for our bus

- Cherie