The cost of a conversion

[artvonne]

  Ive been stripping my 1975 MCI MC5B down. I pulled out all the hokey walls and bunks the previous owner had comeshawed in there, and have started stripping the original walls down to the framing, drilling rivets, pulling the 36 year old fiberglass out. Next will be whatever parts of the floor I need to replace after I peel up the ancient vinyl. Nice to see the structure is virtually rust free behind it all, I got lucky there.

  But the real reason for this post is the stuff on the other end of the spectrum. We were driving up from Springdale today when my wife said "hey! theres a bus for sale!" Gotta pinch myself, the wife is seeing Buses? I took a quick glance in the mirrors and spotted a Prevost conversion. I just had to go back and look. Pulled in the lot, drove around it, and as I passed its butt I say the Liberty coach tag. Wow. 

  Words simply cannot describe one of these, it was truly amazing. The level of architecture and craftsmanship were outstanding. But the saddest part of it was the price, only $97K. And its not selling. And it probably wont sell until its down in the 50-70 range, maybe less. But it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realise you could not build a shell to that standard for even a fraction of the cost. Seriously, its probably worth more in parts.

  So I came home and looked up Liberties and found a load of them out there for sale, wow, there are a lot. And for what they are, they are all cheap. If I was still well off I wouldnt hesitate to snatch up one of those rollers. But im not anymore.

  So I drove home and saw my old Bus sitting there with a pile of insualtion and junk outside the door. Boy do I have a lot of work ahead of me. Boy was that Liberty a nice Bus. Makes ya think about robbing a bank or something, lol. J/K. I guess the point is seeing that much value for the money, and how it really shows how messed up our countries economy truly is.

[luvrbus]

Paul, conversions were just like homes over inflated prices when we bought a new Prevost in 1996 the shell was 242,000 the converter was wanting 800,000 you cannot put 550,000 dollars in conversion was my answer to him, same in today's market a Vip 45 ft Prevost shell is less than 450,000 (500 with slides) they ask 1,800.000 no way Jose it's just not there fwiw I have a doctor friend that bought 1,800.000 Prevost paid less than 900,000 for it 3 months ago.
The people that paid the 1,500.000 for the buses are under water and cannot give one away,rule of thumb buying coaches now is the price of a seated bus plus the conversion which depending on the conversion could be less than the price of the seated coach 

good luck.

[artvonne]

  Clifford, I am in no way justifying the original pricing of these things, they were/are grossly overinflated as new. But there is no way you could build a Bus to that level for what these are selling for used either. It really is a buyers market, and if I had any money left I would grab one of these.

  The wife said she wouldnt like having to do her hair up to ride around in it, lol.

[jjrbus]

Many of the nuts I have met given the option of a nice conversion for $75,000 or a bus with a lot of potential. Standing there with $75K in their hands would opt for the bus with potential.

Financially it makes no sense to do a conversion, never has, never will.

Its more about doing the work, buying the tools, creating the dream, smelling the wood chips. The designing and planning. The camaraderie of other nuts.

My spiritual Guru once told me we are created in the image and likeness of our creator. That we like to create also. Seems real apparent in this community.
                                                      JIm

[scanzel]

I think some of us feel the same way you do. I bought a 1989 Prevost coach back in 2005 in very good condition, gutted it and am still building it out when time permits between a full time job, taking care of the house etc. If we all had known the market was going to crash and fuel shooting up we would probably have waited and bought a ready to go conversion and would have been on the road today instead of sitting home building our coach. But then again we are doing it our way and some day when we get on the road with it we can say I did this, plus by building it ourselves we know how it is put together. I have looked at some big buck conversions and I find them too gaudy inside, rope lights, mirrors etc. Good Luck on your 5.

[demodriver]

As already stated by others. I am the type that would rather say "ya I built that" instead of "ya I bought that".    IMO USUALLY something that a person took the time and pride to build themselfs is alot better built.  And I also like to know ezactly what I have when I am done.

[JWallin]

Yea, and if you don't have a Prevost or other later model bus, or it's a true "collector coach" and has some unique history associated with it,  the scrap value likely exceeds the street value these days regardless of your best conversoin efforts and results.

[luvrbus]

All the 30 year old factory conversions are hitting the market now and that adds to the down swing in the prices of these buses the market is flooded.
I feel for the Prevost guys for years you could buy and drive one for 10 years and almost get your money back not that way now

good luck

[artvonne]

   I like my 5, and like converting it (at least I'll like knowing its done right, or as right as I can do it), and it will be very cool once its on the road. But y'all gotta admit thats a helluvalot of Bus for sub $100k.

  Im guessing that its well past the point of no return for the ones selling these big uns, they either need to sell them or will lose them. I think the guy selling this one is upside down on it. And its scary to know we havnt seen any bottom yet, and likely wont for quite a while.

[qayqayt]

I can see how someone would get discouraged over the span of time it takes to build your own conversion.  I wrote the article on the CERV in the latest BCM mag where we converted a transit for our amateur radio group.  We worked in stuffy, hot confines in the summer and in the freezing, damp cold in the winter.  You have to be an electrician, planner, carpenter, plumber, fabricator, painter and mechanic.  The delusion I had for doing my own bus conversion was beaten down after the first year of construction.  I see many half built bus projects up for sale and now I understand why.

[artvonne]

I see many half built bus projects up for sale and now I understand why.

  I see more than a few like mine was, people who try to build the interior without removing the original walls and windows. Along with poor construction they slowly turn into an overwhelming mess. And like you say, half way through they finally come to their senses, see they really need to rip it all apart and start over, and rather than fixing the mess they started they dump it off on some poor unsuspecting buyer. There is likely a better reason than economics when you see those half baked specials for sale.

  You dont see too many that are started out right to begin with where they give up halfway through though.

[David Anderson]

Building a coach was a "bucket list" thing for me, but that was 11 years ago.  I enjoyed doing the deed, but after 3 years I was pretty tired of converting.  We love the coach now and have been all over the country in it.  I've notice that I now pay more attention to practicality and usage comfort over fancy rope lights and polished aluminum.  My wife and I are at a point that we just want a reliable conveyance to live in while on the road. 

11 years ago all the prices were high.  Purchasing a completed coach was out of reach.  If I was in the market today, I would buy and not convert.  There are just too many rock bottom steals out there to justify all the work that goes into a total conversion.

David

[artvonne]

  There are just too many rock bottom steals out there to justify all the work that goes into a total conversion.

David

  Thats kind of what I meant. Once you can commit to around $30K, there isnt much sense in trying to build anything, the market is flooded with a lot of nice conversions above that price point. And presumably, many of the sellers are so tired, theyll likely come down much further if you start waving cash under their nose, especially on the higher end stuff. I know the guy yesterday is very "motivated". If you know what im sayin.

[Rick59-4104]

  I picked up the '59 4104, really nice conversion, beautiful interior and exterior, ready to go (in the last 2 years the bus made 2 trips totaling about 10,000 miles with no problems) for less $$ than the receipts for the new wheels, tires, brakes and speed control the PO had done to the bus the year I bought it. This was a year ago and I know the market is softer now than a year ago. I feel like I bought the new Firestones, the wheels, the brake job and cruise and got the bus gave to me.

 Now I have the 4103, I've got $500.00 and a few days tearing out the interior in it at this point.. Even at this price I know it will not be cost effective compared with buying one already converted but I have plans to convert it into a mobile studio with living quarters for my metalworking/silversmithing so I could never find a conversion like I want/need.. I feel lucky I have one ready to enjoy and the other to spend the next few years building to my satisfaction. For me, if I just had one bus, it would be one already converted


Rick

[MEverard]

I have a 1960 - 4104 that I wouldn't trade the world for. I got it for $5,000.00 and the PO was half done. I didn't like the quality of the work he was doing so I basically tore it out and started over. In the purchase I received some nice flexsteel furniture, generarator, tanks, refer, and many other things which probably cost what I paid for the bus. I am a contractor and a cabinet shop owner so the interior, plumbing, electrical, and other areas of the conversion are right up my alley. I plan on using it while I'm working on it so I don't get burned out. At this point, I wouldn't want a big fancy coach. My wife loes the nostalgia of our bus. Someday maybe I'll take the plunge when I'm retired and have something big with slides. For right now, we love what we have and couldn't be prouder.

Mike