Current Cost of Freon

[Joe Camper]

R-12 30lb keg 875

134-A 30lb keg 235

These are prices I got today at a local airgas.

Any better sources I'm missing?

After the huge immediate responce/success with my circulating pump issue I'm thinking this may also bare fruit LOL

Our OTR A/C is R-12 that's for me the 134 will end up elsewhere.

Thanks in advance

[demodriver]

I once "heard" of a guy who used puron in the place of r12 with no issues. It is not however approved for a replacment but I know it works.

[luvrbus]

If close to Mexico drive over and get the system charged the last compressor I installed on a MCI last year it cost me 125 bucks for 20+ lbs of R12 installed but it was a 3 hr drive also still worth the trip.
Don't try and bring a 30 lb cylinder back from Mexico pretty stiff fine if you get caught


good luck

[Joe Camper]

Yer Killin me Luverbus

Mexico is not an option. I'm not ready to test the alternatives yet.

It went trouble free for 2 seasons and would still be fine if not for my ignorance. I let the  brushes for the condenser blower go too deep it started turning slow the high side went up and it pushed out before I noticed it. It began to get a bit warm is how I noticed it and by then the damage was done. So it still has its integrity and Im just going to refill it.

On a side note I was given some good advice,I think. Because we have OTR A/C and we live up north and the bus is parked outside in the winter. We should do this whenever done for the season or parked for long periods in very cold.

Shut the valves off at the compressor because it will leak at the shaft seal on the compressor under these conditions and this will for sure eliminate that. Pull the clutch wire too so you don't make the mistake of running it with the valves closed.

Before opening the ports vacuum the compressor add 1/2 lb freon hammer down

Any a/c techs have a comment on this advice and Id still like to find some different R-12  

[papatony]

Joe  There is a product called Freeze 12 you can pick up at your local auto parts store, I have been using it for about 10 years with no problems.  Tony

[Boomer]

10-4 on the Freeze 12.  We ran it very successfully in an MC-9 fleet after R-12 prices went through the roof.  Those small condensers on the older buses do not produce good results when operating in 100 deg temps and after a conversion to R134A (which requires multiple compressor oil changes and changing of hoses).   We had no problems with componant compatability, the Freeze 12 is a good performing and much cheaper product.

[artvonne]

  Those small condensers on the older buses do not produce good results when operating in 100 deg temps and after a conversion to R134A (which requires multiple compressor oil changes and changing of hoses). 

  Are you saying results were not good with 134a with a Bus full of passengers, or not even when empty? Im a big fan of hydrocarbon refrigerant, propane for example, have been since the early 90's when I put some in an old Ford truck. Back then everyone thought it would blow the car to bits. But while virtually free compared to anything else, the quantity a Bus would take causes some trepidation. Im seeing a 30 pounder of freeze 12 at $370??

[norules]

FREEZE 12 and other products like it - are MOSTLY PROPANE  - may not be what you want around a diesel
(Diesel engines can "runaway" if the PROPANE leaks)

But propane is MUCH more efficient than r12 and especially 1344A

They do use propane in A/C's in europe

[belfert]

Has anyone checked with Sam's Club as to R134A pricing?  The last time R134A got expensive Sam's club had it for around $75 for a standard cylinder.

I can't help with R12 or R22 pricing.

[roadrunnertex]

http://www.freeze12.com/

Note it states it Nonflammable
jlv

[thunderstruck]

I'm in the repair buss. and I just paid $269.95 for a 30lb. of 134...

[luvrbus]

134 was 215.00 for 30lbs at Sam's last week I bought it the 1 lb cans it was a better buy 3 cases 12 cans per case for 202.00 total

[rv_safetyman]

I had bought a couple of the 30# containers of R134 at Sams when they were less than $100.  I used one to charge the dash air system (maybe 6 pounds?) and went to top it off and found that the container was empty. 

I like Clifford's idea of the small cans.  That way you can top off a system without fear of loosing a big container of expensive stuff.

Jim

[Joe Camper]

Yes that works, the small cans and that price is the best so far but it is pretty lame that a guy cant get a better price on a 30 lb cyl over cans, guess its a volume thing for the manufacturer.

What compressor oil does the Freeze 12 require?

[artvonne]

  Ive read the MSDS on freeze 12. The ingredients are listed as R134a at 70-80%, and R-152a at 10-25%. No propane is listed, but R-152a is every bit as flamable as propane. And while 134a isnt listed as flamable, it will auto-detonate, and forms a very deadly toxic gas when burned, much deadlier than R-12. Mixed together they are both as flamable as propane. Having read the actual differences, I dont believe propane is any more dangerous as a refrigerant than 134a or Freeze 12.

 Charging with R-12 is out simply due to the excessive cost, 134a and Freeze 12 are out because I would never pay that much for something as deadly as propane when I can use propane for free. And there really isnt any other refrigerant thats as efficient as Propane or so easily adaptable. In addition, R12, R-22, and 134a will soon be unavailable, and we will all be forced to use something many arent familiar or comfortable with, and that will likely be propane.  

 So the question then becomes, how to safely run propane refrigerant in the Bus. As most of the system is outside the cabin, the greatest danger would be an evaporator leak allowing propane into the cabin. A blown line at the compressor or condensor are not likely to start a fire, there really arent any ignition sources in those areas. The engine would run on it, and could accelerate out of control, but as the air intake is generally up away from the compressor area on most Buses, that too is quite unlikely, and then only if stopped. On the highway a gas leak would just harmlessly waft away in the slipstream. The same goes for the condensor, its outside the cabin. The only ignition source in that area is the fan motor, but that could be made explosion proof. So now were back to the evaporator.

 In most RV's there are several propane appliances, furnaces, water heaters, stoves, refrigerators. Several times over my life ive experienced leaks where you could smell gas. We accept that as a risk, and some RV's have 20 or more gallons of propane plumbed right into the cabin, with iron pipe and soft copper and fittings. So why should we fear an evaporator leak? I have never once, in my entire time on this earth, ever had, or known anyone who ever had one leak. Not in a house, and never in a car. But in the off chance it would rupture, what could be done to minimize the risk?