Steel to aluminum wheels

[artvonne]

  I see many references to stud piloted and hub piloted wheels, but nothing to indicate if the wheels are physically different. Are aluminum wheels for Buses and trucks made both ways, and if so, is it easy to tell the difference, are they marked etc.? And that said, what size and width wheels should one be looking for these days? It appears 22.5 is popular and will be around a while, but what are most trucks running right now that would work??

  I guess what im asking for is an education that would hopefully help some others besides just me in selecting the right aluminum wheel and studs, nuts etc.. I also am curious about running steel wheels on the inside duals with aluminum on the outside.

[Rick59-4104]

 Paul,
All our Mack Mail Trucks run 22.5 wheels, my 04 has 24.5". If I was buying new I would probably go with 22.5.
Lug nuts for stud center wheels will be different than hub center.

Rick

[artvonne]

Lug nuts for stud center wheels will be different than hub center.

Rick

  Are the wheels physically different? Or are all aluminum wheels already hub centric?

  I was doing some searching, and there seems some debate between 12r and 11r tires. 12r are wider, but in a 22.5 it appears a 12r is taller. So I should also be asking about wheel "rim" width as well. 

[TedsBUSted]

In the US, the most common stud-piloted wheel is a Budd type. To center the wheel with the hub, stud-piloted wheels use a countersunk seat at each wheel nut. Budd type wheels use a double nut arrangement with dual wheels. Hardware parts for aluminum wheels are usually longer than steel wheel hardware, to compensate for an aluminum wheel's thicker mounting area.

The most common hub-piloted wheel is an Accuride. The Accuride wheel is centered to the hub via the the wheel's center hole. With hub-pilot, wheel stud holes are simple flat-faced  through holes, since there is no need for a countersunk hole to center the wheel. Hub-pilot mounting uses a single wheel nut with both dual as well as single arrangements.

Stud-pilot and hub-pilot wheel types are not interchangeable and use different hardware and hubs. For quick ID, with duals, Budd type's hex outer nut and a square headed inner nut are both visible while assembled. Meanwhile, hub-pilot wheels are retained by a single hex nut arrangement, using an integral flange washer.

Steel and aluminum can be mixed. 12r uses a wider rim than 11r width.
Yes, in most areas 22.5 is the more common truck tire size, however, that often makes for bargains on nice used 24.5 size.

Hope it helps.

Ted

[RoyJ]

Yes, the wheels are physically different, the stud pilot wheels have chamfers on each lug hole, used to position and center the wheel. You'll need rounded lug nuts like Rick mentioned.

Aluminum doesn't necessarily mean hub centric, there are still aluminum stud pilot wheels around, commonly referred to "Budd" wheels.

I'm in a difficult situation myself. My rears are steel 22.5s on the inside, and Alcoa 20s on the outside. 11R20, which is the same diameter as 12R22.5, are just about impossible to find these days.

12R22.5 provide the proper gearing for a lot of classic coaches, but I hate to use such an uncommon size. 11R22.5 is a little shorter, and my coach is already geared low - 2000 rpm @ 60mph. I'm debating whether to go 24.5s or not, which provides much better gearing, but meaning I have to find 4 24.5 "Budd" wheels. In the end, I think I'll just make things simple, and get the largest diameter 11R22.5 I can find.

BTW, if you have a 35', or even some 40', you'll have zero weight issues with an 11R tire.

[luvrbus]

The USA is the only place you will find 24.5 tires the world standard is a 22.5 it won't be long before the 24.5 are gone or be so expensive you cannot afford those and everything in truck and bus tires will be metric just to confuse us lol stick with 22.5 wheels fwiw I always ran the 12r/22.5 my Eagle came with that size and I never changed and now they are popular again 


good luck 

[Jriddle]

Now that we or I have a good handle on the wheel style. I would like more clarification on tire size. I know 12r tires are wider than 11r tires. What about 315/80r/22.5? I have not priced them but would think these would be even bigger than the 12r and also cost more. What about truck tire sizes? One would probably do well by looking for good take offs from a truck. We don't do that many miles and the tires would dryrot before they wore out if we bought new.

John

[TedsBUSted]

Ooops - I meant to use Unimount and not Accuride to describe hub-piloted wheels.

As far as 24.5 popularity, again, it depends on the region and vocation, but I don't think that either size is going away for a long time.

Of course a bargain on a nice set of used tires will keep a hobby bus rolling for a very long time.
With that, I wouldn't shy away from a deal on nice used 24.5 rubber, or for that matter, any tubeless size that has a workable weight capacity and rolling diameter.

Ted

[artvonne]

Now that we or I have a good handle on the wheel style. I would like more clarification on tire size. I know 12r tires are wider than 11r tires. One would probably do well by looking for good take offs from a truck. We don't do that many miles and the tires would dryrot before they wore out if we bought new.

John

 This is my thinking as well, and knowing what to look for, and what size is most common.  A temp/pressure monitor on the fronts doesnt seem such a bad idea. Tires dont normally explode without warning.
 
 So it looks like I already have stud piloted steel BUDD wheels. Do I understand then, that BUDD aluminum stud piloted wheels will go right on using the same nuts, and are probably the easiest and cheapest to find? Which width fits which tire?? 8 inch for 11r, is that correct.

 That I need to be careful of the stud length, I understand that.

 

[thomasinnv]

not sure about your bus, but alot of people have to change to longer studs when they go to aluminum wheels.  Aluminum wheels are thicker than steel.  Some have been able to go with steel on the inside dual and aluminum on the outside without changinf the studs.  Not sure about the front.  Clifford or somebody else will have the quick answer for ya.

[artvonne]

I always ran the 12r/22.5 my Eagle came with that size and I never changed and now they are popular again 
good luck 

 I read many comments of running 11r's on 35 footers, some argued its a marginal tire, others say the 12r offers better flotation/traction in a campground, still others talk of the 11r wasting fuel by spinning so much faster. If the 12r is more readily available, wouldnt that be the best tire choice?

[artvonne]

Some have been able to go with steel on the inside dual and aluminum on the outside without changinf the studs.  Not sure about the front.  Clifford or somebody else will have the quick answer for ya.

  If ive read correctly, we want to maintain 5 to 6 threads after the nuts torqued? And if I saw what I believe, the studs can be knocked out without removing the front hub?

[luvrbus]

You need remove the front hubs to do it right then check the bearings and seals as for the rear just buy the longer inner nuts no need to change the studs in rear.
MCI front studs are hard to find in the aftermarket world you will find some close that people use but I don't and when calling MCI for the front studs be setting down not as far to fall lol and there are 20 of those puppies It is not a problem running steel wheels against aluminum wheels buses (inner steel) are shipped from the manufactures setup that way so are heavy duty trucks


good luck

[gus]

John,

The 315/80r/22.5 is almost an inch wider overall than the 12R x22.5 and probably larger in diameter as well. The 315 or 12 is the overall width of the tire in mm.  (Divide 315mm by 24,5 to get inches).

artv,

If your bus came with 1100x20 tires originally there is no point in installing 12R, that is tire overkill since our conversions rarely come close to the original gross weights of passenger buses.

A bunch of 35 footers came with 1100x20 tires, I believe up through the 4106. (Don't know about those foreign MCIs!!) My4104 came with 1100x20 and my 4107 came with either 1200x20 or 12Rx22.5, I'm not sure which, but they both have appx the same load rating. The 22.5 just means it is tubeless.

I think you'll find that the 11Rx22.5 is much more common than the 12R because so many trucks use it.

[luvrbus]

Most trucks run the 295/80/22.5  fwiw

good luck