Black tank vent

[gus]

You may be right, I'm just going from what my house plumbing manual says and it says nothing about venting gases - just about taking air in.

Individual traps block sewer gases in houses plus there is a master trap at the main sewer line connection. Home sewer gas explosions I've read about all involved the failure of this master trap. Our buses don't have this master trap so they are a different situation.

The normal bus/RV setup with the toilet directly over the tank has always bothered me, I like the setup of my 4104, which has a long pipe going into the bottom of the waste tank. Seems a lot safer to me. This setup blocks tank gas from the toilet and everything else except the small amount of gas in the pipes.

In spite of all the posts saying it won't work, this system, which has a very slightly sloped toilet drain all the way across the bus with three elbows,  never once clogged in six years and 64,000 miles. It came that way with the bus.

[JohnEd]

We all agree! poo stinks ! so lets keep it from the inside of coach by all means. vent's good water traps /with water in them. A sealing valve on toilet. vent to inside bay I question some what but if you are sure the inside of coach has no way of sucking odor from bay area good: wire hole to bay   plumbing passage to bay   Basically anything air can pass thru.. I have thru roof and don't get smell going down road. But once in awhile someone holds the toilet valve open longer than necessary. Well everyone's poo stinks. We don't have the trap like the home units. we also don't use 3 gal of water per flush.    Bob

Bob,

This is my point about having adequate vents.  I can stand on my flush pedal and peer into my black tank as long as I want.  I get no odor!!!!   I do that to check my black water level.  I think that when I flush with a full charge of water, the water rushes in the tank, slightly pressurizes the tank, the air can onl;y go out the vent as the toilet water is rushing in, so there is a flow of air started out the vent.  That flow will continue for a while after all the water is discharged from the toilet into the tgank.  There should be no "puff" of air back into the coach.  UNLESS there is resistance in the vent line due to the vent pipe being to smmall OR there arte too many bends and turns in the vent pipe.  The way my system works so well makes sense to me and the trouble others are having simply means that they have a design problem.  It should be welcome news that they have a problem as problems have solutions whereas if there is no solution then the condition is simply REALITY and it must be lived with.

[Lin]

John, that may be the way it works when you are parked, but when traveling down the road with something like the toll window open to create a negative internal pressure, it's a good chance that the odor will be sucked into the coach.  In that case, the vent may even help the tank gas flow inside more freely.

[JohnEd]

Lin,

Absolutely correct...what you said.  My only experience with using my toilet is when I am stopped and in the bathroom.  What you say makes purfect sence.

Say....that wasn't a slap at how small my Winnie is, was it?   The only place I can sit in the drivers seat and use the toilet simultaneously is when I am driving my motorcycle.  And even there I don't have a "toll window".

[artvonne]

   What is the reasoning behind a two tank, black water/grey water tank system? Or to ask it different, what are the pros and cons of the two tanker vs single tank system?

   The only possible advantage I see, is using the grey water to flush the hose after emtying the black water.

   Taking some of your different ideas into mind, outside of water, leafs, bugs, etc., going down the vent, is there any reason to have the vent capped? Like many, ive found them busted off after a low branch tangled with it. Im considering running it flush with the roof, with perhaps just a slight angle cut to the pipe with the high side forward, like a whistle to induce outward air flow.

   Im reading of these bottom vents and I just never would have thought of doing it that way. Ive been playing around campers my whole life, some old trailers from the 40's and 50's even are vented to the roof. But if it works for ya whose to argue. Mines going through the roof though, just seems the right way to go.

  Now if you really want to see how to do it wrong... This Bus I bought, she was an "entertainer". You know, a band bus. Just cram the low rents in and run em town to town. I knew there was no crapper in the Bus from the pics, and when I made a walk through I so intended on tossing everything out the door I passed over things, like closely observing the bathroom floor. So imagine my surprise when the wife noted it used to have a toilet. I looked down at the floor, and sho nuff, there was a PVC crapper ring screwed to the floor, and you could clearly see the pipe, goin down....

  Odd, I didnt recall any tank down below decks, theres a genny down there....I immediately exited Da Bus and opened the rear bay, and found said pipe. Yes, it came down from the main deck. But it passed right on through, past the back of the genny, and down through a hole in the bottom of the cargo bay. Right down onto the road, right in front of the right side duals. My wife had come around behind me and we observed what I had found togrther, and we both went EWWWWW at about the same time.

  Which really makes you wonder how some of the people we share the world with think. Did they think it was funny to build it that a way? Do they get a kick out of blasting crapola off the right rear duals and watchin it spray onto the cars tailing them? Just makes you consider those "entertainers" opinions of the way they think the rest of us are supposed to live while they look down there nose at us. Or is that, drop a load on us. We may want to walk around thier Buses when we see them and take a looksee. I bet this wasnt the only one out there. Saves a lot of room for band gear when you leave out tanks.

 

[wal1809]

Art, to answer your question on the two tank gray/black.  My bus came with 1 tank black and gray going to the same tank.  We used to get 1 maybe 2 nights without having to go dump the tank.  I split the gray and ran it to a poly 55 gallon tank which I can run off on the ground.  The parks here in Texas welcome you to it as most of the time the grass never gets enought water.  I stayed 2 weeks at a park in Somerville while attended a training class.  We made it sunday through Friday evening before we had to dump the black tank.  The gray we just ran onto the ground.  As much gray as we used the water spot on the ground was never larger than a square foot.  It was very dry and the ground just sucked up the gray water.  Of all the additions I put on the bus since we bought it I would say splitting the gray was one of the best modifications we have done.

Oh and for cleaning the tank I used a 6 foot piece of 3/4 pvc pipe with a cap glued on one end and a water hose fitting at the other.  I drilled a series of holes aroound the capped end to create a 360 spray pattern.  After I open the valve and all the ick comes out I stick that pvc all the way to the back of the tank, through the valve and let her rip until I get clear water coming out of the tank.  When done I put more water in the black tank and pour in waterever cleaning agent I have on hand like pinesol or even the store bought black tank solutions, usually pine sol or fabuloso.

[artvonne]

  I never considered dumping grey water on the ground, but it does seem to be gaining favor. I suppose you could run a larger black tank and a smaller grey then, and if need be, if your somewhere you cant dump it, pump grey into the black.

 
 

[Chaz]

If you are considering putting the grey on the ground (like people do with outside showers and shower heads) Look at the pic of the little contraption I did on page 3 of this thread ( http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=19584.30 ) It really does work well if you can run it out from where you are parked. It's cheap to do and most anyone at one time or another could use it. A long garden hose may be necessary. And the beauty is, less tank, more room. Just make sure you use common sense when using it.
Chaz

[lostagain]

My Courier 96 is set up the same way. We have used it a few times to dump grey water on the ground, when allowed. Very handy.

JC

[luvrbus]

Dumping gray water maybe gaining favor here on this board but it still wrong you get caught here in AZ doing that a gray tank is cheap all gray tanks are larger than the black tank on the correct setup and it stinks as bad as the black.
I would not have a a problem telling a owner dumping his gray water to take it to a dump station it's not about just one persons easy way out.
 I am not a tree huger if some areas like here in the desert in a few places allow it on Federal land so be it,but you are not going to dump that stinking stuff next to where I am parked  lol

good luck

[wal1809]

Chaz I did mone the same way by putting a large T above a large valve where the shower used to go to the black tank.  By shutting that valve it diverts the water to the gray tank.  I can't ever see running the gray to the black tank through that T but it is nice to know it is there just in case.

Hello Luvrbus.  I can understand gray water being couped up in a tank and then dumping the whole batch after it is allowed to cookl in the tank for a while.  I just leave the valve open and to the valve is a water hose.  I just lay the hose out on the ground and it runs out as we use the water.  No stink or nothing.  I know I can get pretty stinky in a days times but I didn't think I smelled that bad

[Chaz]

Luvr,
  When you say it "stinks", I'm guessing you mean after it "brews" awhile in the tank??    Otherwise, on several occasions, I have had the opportunity of using "outside showers" (a bunch of times actually, and sometimes with MANY people) and do not recall any foul odor. But, as you say, if you are dumping a tank, I imagine that could get a bit nasty after it's "brewed" awhile  . And, above all, keeping a good oxygen supply to anything anarobic (like the nasty bacteria in a compost pile, poop , etc.) keeps the bad bacteria from growing and aids the good bacteria in keeping it clean and better smelling. So, if it gets absorbed quickly and doesn't stand around in some sort of nasty cess pool, it's my guess - only a guess now - that it would be somewhat benign.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to promote this, just trying to bring light to the whole situation in case someone else does this so they can do it, let's say, in a more "proper" method, being more informed. And again, if one does this, it's only smart to look at the whole picture and use common sense as with anything.
It's also just an opinion of mine that if there is a law restricting something, they make it based on what is easiest for them to enforce and it's easier to restrict everyone than to take the notion that some, maybe even most, people can use common sense in doing something BUT, then there are "those"  ..............and those are the ones that screw it up for the masses.
Again, not advocating or trying to be a Rebel here, just looking at the whole picture. There are TONS of scenario's that are that way.
  Chaz
Just sayin,
  Chaz

[artvonne]

 Or, running a pump, run it out behind the toad and put a spray nozzle on it. You could wash the road, so to speak. Grey water now, not the good stuff.

[brando4905]

Grey water can be just as bad as black water if dumped on the ground, it can contain some nasty stuff. Here's an informative document with some info, http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/wmb/documents/wmb-7.pdf

Although black water generally contains more disease-causing organisms, many of these
organisms can be found and persist in greywater and water contaminated with greywater. Some
familiar organisms include coliform bacteria; fecal coliforms, including E. coli; Salmonella
species; staphylococci species; viruses, including polioviruses and hepatitis virus A; and possibly
Giardia cysts.


Not trying to stir the pot here, just wanted to put this info out there for folks who may not know what could be in grey water. I work at alot of large outdoor events, when all the patrons leave some of these events dump the grey water on the gravel roads of these sites, then it drys and you have grey water dust making folks very sick.

[luvrbus]

Brandon, you are preaching to the choir here, I don't know anywhere now where that is allowable some state parks give a free night if you catch some one and report it.
I would never do that but I do tell the guy parked next to me I do not want to smell that stuff,500 dollar fine in AZ if they catch you dumping gray water on state property like rest areas or parks.
Many of times have I saw the BLM in Quartzsite ban and fine people for letting gray water on the ground not worth it to me   


good luck