quick update on mc9 convertion

mike802 · March 11, 2011, 05:46:39 PM

Here we are finishing up one wall, I miss spoke and said we used 1 3/4 inches of pink board, but we actually used 1 1/4 inches. I was in a hurry and just wanted to get her DONE

It really feels good to be able to sign off on something!

MC9 wall insulation finished

brando4905 · March 12, 2011, 04:36:55 AM

Mike,

Looking good!! Love the rivet tool, sure beats squeezing them all in by hand.

Thanks for the video.

Brandon

paulrobie · March 12, 2011, 10:53:11 AM

This may be a stupid question but.... why are you putting the metal panels back on the wall? Did I miss something? I was under the impression that after insulating the walls you could just go back with plywood and so I am confused. I will be starting removal of those panels next week and wonder now if I should save them for re-use or is the plywood alone all right. HELP?

happycamperbrat · March 12, 2011, 02:27:08 PM

Insulation!!! Good for you!! The people with the real weather are quick to do the insulation and do it right

mike802 · March 12, 2011, 08:20:22 PM

QuoteThis may be a stupid question but.... why are you putting the metal panels back on the wall? Did I miss something? I was under the impression that after insulating the walls you could just go back with plywood and so I am confused. I will be starting removal of those panels next week and wonder now if I should save them for re-use or is the plywood alone all right. HELP?

That seems to be kind of controversial, some people leave them off and others like to reinstall them. I haven't heard of anyone's bus folding in half because they left them off and used plywood, but I decided to leave the bus's structure the way it was engineered and put the panels back on. Plywood can always be installed over the panels by counter sinking where the rivet heads are so it will fit flush. I have not decided exactly how I am going to build the finished wall yet.

Today I started removing the panels on the passenger side, I was thinking the drivers side would be the worse, but I found a lot more rust on the passenger side. I was very lucky on the drivers side and only had to do some light scraping in spots and treated the rust with a couple coats of rust converter, but the passenger side will require welding in some new metal.

chart1 · March 12, 2011, 09:02:40 PM

I left my panels off. If you are not using rivits of the same strength as the panels how is that doing any good. Take a piece of 3/8' plywood and cut it the same size as your panels and see which one bends or flex more. Everybody has their own way of doing things and like you said, haven't seen a coach folded in half yet. Just seems like a lot of extra work. But its looking good.

mike802 · March 13, 2011, 09:15:52 AM

Chart1

QuoteIf you are not using rivits of the same strength as the panels how is that doing any good

That's a good point, and I really have no idea. I am no expert on buses and can only talk about what I have done so far and what I have read on this site. I went back and forth on this issue myself, at first I was going to leave the panels off, pad the framing and get some extra insulation in there, but after reading some of the opinions on this site, I decided to put the panels back on.

I am not sure if the original rivets were structural, they were aluminum with a steel shaft and they came out real easy with a hammer and chisel. The rivets I used to re-install the panels "look" the same, but I know they are not structural. If I remember correctly structural rivets were going to cost me close to a grand, and the rivets I used cost about 100 bucks.

Cost is a factor for me on this build, I am not a full timer and only plan on using the bus for vacations, weekend get a ways and some business travel. That does not mean I want to cut corners and build an unsafe bus. My son talked to Luke at Us Coach and asked his opinion and he did not feel structural rivets were necessary.

The panels do not appear to be anything special, just heavy sheet metal, not sure of the gauge without going out and measuring it. Plywood is defiantly more ridged and seems to work just fine as you have stated. I think "for me" putting the panels back on was less work than putting plywood on in their place because I did not have to run to the lumber yard, did not have to measure and cut anything, did not have to drill all new holes for screws, or rivets. By reusing the panels all the holes lined up and only required a little drilling in some spots and the riveting went real fast with the gun. That is the basis for my decision, I think it will work out all right. The nice thing about this hobby is we each get to do it our own way, as long as it is safe for ourselves and those we share the road with. I am not saying my way is better, or worse than anyone else s, its just the way I decided to do it with the resources and knowledge I had to work with at that time.

NewbeeMC9 · March 13, 2011, 10:23:34 AM

While your at it might want to fill the tubing with foam. Stops the internal condensation which is where these buses tend to rust, the condensation from the air drops down and will cause rust along the floor line. You can drill a tiny hole and check the wall thickness of the tubes too while your at it.

Also helps some of the heat transfer paths.

From what I have read here about leaving the panels, your bus most likely won't bend in half, but you may pops some rivets elsware and that sort of thing.

Looks good and thanks for the update.

chart1 · March 13, 2011, 04:21:15 PM

I think what ever way you decide will work for sure. These buses are strong. I flipped my on its side in a wreck and it took to semi size tow trucks to bring it back up right. The only thing that happened was a broken fiberglass fender and the rear end. The only reason the rear end went out is because they didn't release the air brake and drug it with the drives locked up.
I really thought the roof would buckle or the bus would flex and bust the side windows, but nothing.

JohnEd · March 13, 2011, 04:34:20 PM

Quote from: chart1 on March 13, 2011, 04:21:15 PM
I think what ever way you decide will work for sure. These buses are strong. I flipped my on its side in a wreck and it took to semi size tow trucks to bring it back up right. The only thing that happened was a broken fiberglass fender and the rear end. The only reason the rear end went out is because they didn't release the air brake and drug it with the drives locked up.
I really thought the roof would buckle or the bus would flex and bust the side windows, but nothing.

And that was with a 8 inch roof raise?

buswarrior · March 13, 2011, 04:35:05 PM

I think he did fill the tubing, note the removal of the spray foam bits prior to attaching the next panel.

In the MCI of this vintage, the inner panels contribute to the integrity of the walls. In monocoque construction, it is the sum of the parts, not the strength of individual pieces, that counts.

The heavier external panels, with the lighter interior panels, makes for a complimentary relationship. Substituting plywood for the interior panels can accomplish the same thing, provided a suitable number of fasteners are used to make the whole thing "tight".

For busnut use, the collective experience is that if there are ill effects to straying from the original design, nobody is fessing up that their coach has suffered any.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

chart1 · March 13, 2011, 04:41:25 PM

I do have rivots on my back cap that i always find missing across the back and have to replace a few every year. Maybe flexing from the engine.

buswarrior · March 13, 2011, 05:08:30 PM

Maybe the engine cradle?
Maybe the roof raise?
Maybe what is there isn't as strategic as what was there before?
Maybe wrong rivets?

Just keep putting them back?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

mike802 · March 13, 2011, 06:38:29 PM

I have a few rivets missing in the engine compartment, but I think it is due to corrosion rather than flexing because the coach has never gone down the road in anything other than stock form. When I replace them I will probably use structural stainless rivets, its a lot easier to buy a few packs of 25 every now and again then like a thousand at once. And yes the frame members were filled with expanding foam, that is the stuff I am scraping off before putting the next panel on.