Mexico trips

[happycamperbrat]

I really am against drug use of any kind unless prescribed by a good doctor. Heck, I dont even like to take tylenol! But I do agree, drugs are ruining America and Mexico in more then one way. And I also agree that if it were legal and sold and distributed and controlled like alcohol then both America and Mexico would be safer places.

[JohnEd]

Art,

Thank you.  Were I to say what you did, some would think me a liberal, as though being opposed to crime and a scourge on humanity is a political litmus of some sort.  Go figure.  I agree with all that you said.  You may have been to young for this at the time it happened, but, Richard Millhouse Nixon, a man with many neurotic compulsive bents, was loath of the threat of Marijuana.  In his simplistic and ill-informed mind he saw  M as a gateway drug and a highly addictive substance though it is proven to be NOT addictive.  He was loath that cursed and cussed musicians were using the stuff and setting a bad example for "our precious children".  His answer was a remarkably sane one in that he wanted to prove all those people that were poo pooing the dangers of pot were wrong conclusively.  He formed the most Blue of Blue Ribbon panels every assembled to "expose the true nature and dangers" of pot.  His commission was composed of medical doctors of many strip, psychologists, socialists, law enforcement, college professors, etc.  Hitters one and all.  Before any were granted a seat at the table, looked to have 20+ chairs to me,  they had to swear an oath of secrecy.  Well after many months and a liberal
dose of cash the C produced it's final report and sent it off to the White House.  They say Nixon went berserk when he read the executive summary(it was never published).  His response, even before his blood pressure started coming back down and he regained full control of his bowels was to classify the report and all documentation associated with it as TOP SECRET NATIONAL DEFENSE CRITICAL,   and he had the expiration date set for "always and forever and ever".  None of the commission members, many of which would have broken their vow to get the findings to the public, were now faced with life terms in the fed prison system.  Not a peep was heard.  Uncle Joe Stalin did exactly the same with the intelligentsia of Russia by giving a massive tour of a gulag and letting the word spread form the "smart folk" themselves.  Other tyrants did all this long ago so Dick gets no credit for being creative and the results are also delineated in history.  See why HISTORY is so very scoffed at in some circles and the professors that spew the "propaganda" and poison young minds are always "Lefties".

I had a friend that I cherished in many ways.  He was Hawaiian, considerably older than I and a retired US Army Master sergeant.  His first name was Ed but the best I can do for his last name was "Pie ah new ey" and he lived in SD.  He fled the Chinese hordes that swept south in Korea and ran with the Marines at Chow Lin Reservoir(?) and saw the chasing enemy kill American stragglers.  Ed was a hero to me and the Army and he was decorated I am certain although he wasn't the type to ever divulge that type of personal info.  I worked beside him on the night shift and we were alone in the plant.  I talked about the "scourge of drugs one night" and Ed, always the "arch conservative", and me also at the time, had a strange tale to tell.  He said " In the islands the work can be brutal and the pay not so good.  All the men get around the fire in the village on Saturday night to celebrate.  Some drink whiskey, some smoke opium,  and almost all smoke pot
and hash.  We don't have a drug problem and we have always done this.  We don't have addicts very often but sometimes a man will start using any of these things every night and he is sick with it.  Very very few Hawaiians but more Howlies(whites from the main land) get addicted and the opium or whiskey ruins them.  That shouldn't make my father and mother and uncles and friends criminals or guilty of anything or deprive them of their pleasures.  They all live a very hard life."  Curious words coming from a patriotic American with bonifides.  Ed spoke so very little and he proved so correct and insightful so many times that, like E.F. Hutton, when he spoke I listened intently.  So I don't know what the moral is but I do know that there are more than one view and some are based on rich personal experience.  Thanks, Ed and RIP.

We, as a society, have come to regard the intelligent and educated Americans and professors as the enemy.  That only serves those that find threats in those learned gentle folk.  In the dark ages that group was the Inquisition and they burned every book they could lay their hands on and killed all the professors.(so did PolPot)   Curious aside, when the dark ages ended and we had slid backwards for 500 years and lost the secrets to doing many things, the educated class, such as it was by then, understood that much of the western history and knowledge had been burned or otherwise lost.  Our "smart guys" went to the only libraries(those cursed dens) known.  The Arab ones in Baghdad. and Constantinople.  See, those "A" Rabs have worshiped knowledge and
understanding since before the Dark Ages.  Might have been a religious thing. dunno.  In their
quest, the Arabs, they came to all the western libraries, before they were burned to the ground,
and hand copied(no xerox at the time) every blessed thing we had and it was a trove of
information.  I would guess the Baghdad Library had a section marked "Western Europe" before
we called it that.  Well, in this episode it was our scribes that went east and copied all our own
books for the Arabs had mastered our tongues and copied them in the original.  Nice of them to
do that and then preserve it for us for 500 years.  But of all the things we might think of that
would allow us to be less harsh with the Arabs it is firstly the Arabic Numerals.  The second best thing was what we learned when we went back for our books.  The Arabs, in their typical sharing fashion, told us that in our absence they had made a great invention.  It was written "0" and pronounced "ZERO".  How many did it represent was the question...none....what possible use could a numeral be that stands for "nothing".....watch, let me show ya'll".  Cursed Humanities professors and their tales.  We should send Baghdad a "thank you"...no wait, we just did that.

The other groups that seem offended by knowledge are Tyrants.  Stalin, Hitler, Joe McCarthy, and on and on.  Then there is the tyranny of the masses and that Mary Jane is why we live in a Republic.  Democratic tho it may be the majority sometimes is prevented from ruling and that's a good thing like God not answering some payers as a gift to the person asking..

The definition of insanity, well one of them anyway, is "to keep doing the same thing over and over and insisting that there should be a different result than the one you always get".

We have to start getting out of our own way.  Instead of "mom and Pop" Americans saying
something stupid such as we should "lock up all the druggies", why not legitimize humility and inform them that the only blessed thing they are qualified to request is to:  Reduce the medical burden that drugs create.  Reduce the number of addicts.  Reduce the CRIME associated with drugs.  Reduce the dollar cost we bear to deal with drugs.  Reduce the number of deaths associated with drugs.  And you get 4 years to show us what you can do and get us on track OR ELSE.  On track is the salient task as nobody will ever straighten out this mess in 4 years and we will always need minor course corrections.  But lets stop demonizing those that have a truly different and educated approach to our problems.  Are we such ego maniacs as to think that solutions to complex problems are within our grasp?  They aren't even within a President's grasp, as witnessed by Reagan's hapless decisions on the matter.

When RR took over, a scandalous affair came to his attention.  Great  Brittan was "passing out heroin" to addicts and actually teaching them to use the drug (safely).  OMG, Nancy did you have any idea?  Well, actually she wasn't any better informed on the topic than Ronnie given her solution was to "just say no"..  RR first verified this "horror"with the "Iron Maiden" Margaret Thatcher.  RR made her an offer she couldn't refuse and that was that he would not suspend the arms aid to Great Britain "if" she suspended that despicable drug distribution program thank you very much. She and Ronnie hadn't become fast friends up until that point but she idolized him there after.  She also clipped the wings of the national drug addict program.  That lasted a few years and she called RR on the matter and told him that the program was going to re-initiated and if cost them the aid, well then, so be it.  She explained that great Britain had experienced many times increase in burglaries and assaults and other violent crime.  Families were being abused and used by the addicts.  Prisons were filling, Health costs associated with drug use had gone
thru the roof.  Generally speaking society had been badly mauled by the suspension of treatment options.  Also, there was a dramatic rise in the number of new addicts as the pushers had suffered a vast infusion of funds to support recruitment..  All in all it was setting them back more than the aid was worth.  RR relented and did not cancel the aid when GB started their treatment program back up out of desperation.  The thing about all this was the information that there were only two
professions that were prohibited from working while they were in the hereon program...Airline Pilot and Bus Driver.  Got that?  Only those two.  Heroin, it turns out, is a very cheap drug bought legally.  Taken in maint doasges it was not debiliting and the adicts were living normal lives, albeit medicated as out depression using people are except ours can and do fly airplanes.  The addicts consumed .17 dollars worth a day on average...that was a long time ago and it must be up to a buck in today's inflated market.  Our addicts need at least $500 per day so the pawn shops do really well and can be expected to resist legalization or treatment of drugies. This travesty will continue until this subject isn't a political issue and people trying to resolve it in the only humane manners available are called "lefties", "commies","socialist",  "pinkos" and "liberals" and the worst of all "Do Gooders".  Heck of a slam, that one, and Do Badders is the logical favored alternative.

A pharmacist told me that heroin is a superior pain killer than morphine and that the patients prefer it cause it has a "good feeling" associated with it and it is far less debilitating.  Morphine has a downer like affect that is basically unpleasant but it reduces pain.  This stuff is only given to terminal patients that are in the last days of their lives.  These people are dying and we can't give them a kinder and gentler drug to ease their pain and allow them the faculty to realize where they are and to communicate with their family in their final hours.  Shouldn't that action be left up to the Physician and the patient?  Well, heXX no....not if we stop bearing down on crime.

So lets hear it....who is favor of bearing down on crime, cutting the budget and locking up more of those druggies.  They gotta get the message sooner or later cause we aren't going to change out minds or wise up....right?  Right folks?

Well obviously this took a turn but I think I am still within the bounds of staying on topic.

John the conservative

BK,

I'll see ya off topic about that Obama thingy.   You will like it as I will speak very little and mostly turn the podium over to you....kinda.

[mcidave]

How about a cruise to Cosumel...Is it safe there?

[ruthi]

WE went there about a yr. ago. It was nice. My brother just got back from there, no problems.

[artvonne]

  Ruthi, I wasnt trying to make it political. There is plenty enough blame for keeping the drug war going, and both sides have stuck their hands in it deep. It was going on long before RMN, Mr. Peanut, RR, BC, GW, or any other POTUS in the last 50 odd years. Multi Billion dollar black Helicopter and surveilence aircraft projects, satelite and IR imagery technology, side scan sonar, FLIR, most all of it earmarked for the war on drugs, or which used funding for the WOD to finance it. Many good people from each side have been sucked into the vortex of this scam, and until we stop pointing fingers at each other, we'll never be able to sit down at a table and figure out how to turn it around.

  But I have to say, our stupid drug problem is what has caused this situation in Mexico. Waving $Millions in front of desperately poor people tends to cause things like this. So just sitting back while Mexicans kill each other is pretty disengenuous IMHO. Legalizing it would put a stop to the bloodshed, almost overnight. 

[JohnEd]

Art,

Well said.  And legalization would be somthing we haven't tried so it would at least have a ....

Ruthi,

I don't even take the pain killers I have been given for injuries unless I am in agony.  I don't like the stuff.  I also don't advocate any illegal stuff and I never have.  Legalization will have a high price but that price will be a pittance compared to what we have going on today.  There are examples of the success of that theory and they aren't rare.  England and Holland are just two.  It saves lives and society. 

We killed cigarettes and shine and over the counter opiates, and the original Coca Cola formula that contained cocaine....I swear to G..

John

[Iceni John]

I'm going to Tijuana again this Friday to collect some folk from the aeropuerto  -  using the Otay Mesa crossing is quicker (less slow?) and easier than Chula Vista, and I prefer going to TJ airport than to LAX.   A year ago I had to collect relatives from Tijuana's Central Camionera  -  even that's better than most Greyhound bus stations!   I feel safer in MX, even in border areas where the Narcos operate, than most inner-city areas in USA.   (Compton or Watts, anyone?)

My gut feeling is that Mexico is still overall a safer country than here, not least of all because there isn't the deeply-ingrained gun culture there that is so pervasive here.   I would prefer riding the Mexico City metro any day over the NY subway.   Once you're away from the border zone, it's fine.   Border areas, whether the NWFP in Pakistan, Landi Kotal on the Khyber pass, Kashmir in India, Nuristan in Afghanistan, or Kurdish eastern Turkey, are always more volatile than elsewhere, but that doesn't automatically make them too dangerous to ever visit.   Besides, they're often the most interesting parts of a country.

Juano, con el camion Corona Super-Dos  

[wal1809]

JohnEd, That is probably the best read I have ever come across on the internet.  I agree 100 1000 100000 x a billion with what you wrote.  It is time we get the stair stepper drug that will make you try to fly off of the building stereotype out of drug abuse.  Stop wasting money on something that has been ever increasing all of our entire lives.

[artvonne]

But I do agree, drugs are ruining America and Mexico in more then one way.

  Drugs never have and never will ruin America, the War on Drugs is ruining America. And making us lots of nice friends in Mexico too, by the looks of it. 

[happycamperbrat]

But I do agree, drugs are ruining America and Mexico in more then one way.

 Drugs never have and never will ruin America, the War on Drugs is ruining America. And making us lots of nice friends in Mexico too, by the looks of it.  

I completely agree! And actually, that was what I meant. Without drugs, there would be no War on Drugs. But we have drugs and people are going to use and it costs lives not only because of drug abuse but because of the "war" over it all.

[zubzub]

I'm going to Tijuana again this Friday to collect some folk from the aeropuerto  -  using the Otay Mesa crossing is quicker (less slow?) and easier than Chula Vista, and I prefer going to TJ airport than to LAX.   A year ago I had to collect relatives from Tijuana's Central Camionera  -  even that's better than most Greyhound bus stations!   I feel safer in MX, even in border areas where the Narcos operate, than most inner-city areas in USA.   (Compton or Watts, anyone?)

My gut feeling is that Mexico is still overall a safer country than here, not least of all because there isn't the deeply-ingrained gun culture there that is so pervasive here.   I would prefer riding the Mexico City metro any day over the NY subway.   Once you're away from the border zone, it's fine.  

Juano, con el camion Corona Super-Dos  

Couldn't agree more.  25 years ago when I started visiting Mexico it always felt safer than US cities and has continued to feel more "civilized'" than the states.  Some may take exception to this, but I've kicked around a lot in North and Central America, and that's what I've found.  I have also learnt that in general folks are quite ready to believe all sorts of negative things about "the unknown".

[ruthi]

JohnEd and Art, I was just making an observation. I would not feel comfortable in Mexico in general now. I personally feel more secure in the states with our protections that we travel with than over there, and something does happen, no recourse. Thats just me. I do agree that it is the war that is the root of the problem. JohnEd, I am the same way, dont take any drugs, prescribed or not, not even aspirin.

[dougyes]

We bussed to Mex for 2 weeks this winter. The only problem was the cops pulling you over and asking for a bribe. The locals say the drug guys have specific targets where as the army will shoot anyone. Don't pass the army on the hwy until they signal you to pass or they might shoot you. Anyway all went smooth this year.

[Mex-Busnut]

The government of the great of Texas has recently inaugurated a new website dedicated to disclosing Texas' problems with the Mexican drug cartels.

http://www.protectyourtexasborder.com/

[Mex-Busnut]

We bussed to Mex for 2 weeks this winter. The only problem was the cops pulling you over and asking for a bribe. The locals say the drug guys have specific targets where as the army will shoot anyone. Don't pass the army on the hwy until they signal you to pass or they might shoot you. Anyway all went smooth this year.

Where did you cross the border? What was your route here in Mexico?