Headlight wattage

[Lin]

I believe that my current 24v sealed beams are 60 watt.  I want to replace them with h4's but find it difficult to get them less than 75 watts.  Since that amounts to about a .6 amp difference, it seems that I should be able to use them.  Am I right?

[rv_safetyman]

Lin, the conversion to H4 can be done two ways.  The best is to go with Cibie or Hella E-Code.  The less desirable, in my mind, is one of the many units that have popped up in the past year or so that don't see to have any kind of rating.

If you go the E-Code route, the experts suggest standard wattage.  The optics is so good that you don't need to up the power.

No matter what, I would put relays close to the headlights and let your current headlight hardware supply the very small current to trigger the relays. 

I tried normal Bosh-type relays and had water problems.  You need to use sealed relays.

I am finishing an article for BCM on the subject.  I will include sources for the components.  The best source in my mind is Digikey.  I will try to look up the part number today if I can.

Jim

[RJ]

Lin -

If you go with the H4, be sure to get it in 24v, or they won't survive very long.

www.cibieusa.com is the source for the great Cibie E-code headlamps, well worth the money, IMHO.  (What price SAFETY??)

(BTW, the Cibie dealer above is located in So CA.)

This fellow also has the halogen bulbs available in 24v.

OTOH, you might seriously consider, if you use Jim's suggestion of relays, converting your headlights to 12v, so that replacement bulbs can be picked up at any auto parts store.  That way you wouldn't have to search for 24v bulbs.

Oh, and a final thought:  Upping the wattage output with standard US-DOT spec headlights does virtually nothing but annoy oncoming drivers.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Lin]

Thanks for the response guys.  I have read several threads on the subject and did some web research.  It seems that Cibies get the highest marks with Hella coming in second.  There are also other ones available that seem to garner less enthusiasm.  This is one of the cases where price seems to reflect quality, so I am opting for second best in the belief that it will be good enough for me, especially when compared to my classic sealed beams.  I look forward to reading the article on headlights, and the relay project is on the list, but wish to have an immediate, quick upgrade now.  The thought of converting to 12v is interesting and I will have to mull that one over a bit.  For now, if my current wiring will take the current, I think I would like to do that.  Do you think that it could?

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Lin, the PO put in a Transpo Electronics Inc.  voltage reducer on my 5A for the 12v headlights. It sits on the wall near the floor, right behind the steering column. The part # is VR 24-1216.  Looks like this has been there since 1996 as that is the date code on it. I don't think he changed any of the wiring but can not verify that. It looks like it is a 2 wire hookup from what i can see of it. 

[rv_safetyman]

Lin, I suspect your wiring will not have any issue with the amperage.  The issue might be voltage drops through the headlight switch, breaker/fuse, and the dimmer switch.  All that stuff has a few miles/years on them and may not be up to snuff.

I looked for a 24 volt sealed relay, but could not find one.

Putting relays in the circuit costs very little (can be done for less than $30) and guarantees that the headlights will see full voltage.

I am not sure how you will use the H4 bulbs.  You will have to buy new headlight housings that will accommodate that bulb and anything I have found is at least half the cost of Cibie.  You will not find one person that would tell you to cut corners here.

Jim

[Lin]

Jim, the Cibies would be about $170. plus shipping while Hellas can be gotten for about $70.  At this time, that means something to me.

[JohnEd]

If you are talking 7 inch round Hellas then I would tell you most assuredly to pass on the Cibie and go with the Hella.  Not that the Cibie isn't a better product.....I think it is.  The Hellas I have had for years I would not part with.  I don't think I could see $100 improvement and I know I wouldn't benefit from it on a cost basis.

Jim has given you some superb advice.....Install dedicated relay circuits to "drive" your lights.  If you were to use 12V lamps in what was previously a 24V circuit the 24V wiring would certainly NOT be satisfactory.  Install your relays somewhere dry wherever that might be.  If you run a 8 gauge wire from the relay to the light you will have no loss on that wire even if it is 10 feet long but that assumes that your 12V supply is of sufficient gauge to allow the lights to draw their max amps without more that .1 volts drop.  That can be done and  arithmetic can explain/prove it.  If you were to install the relays even without the new lamps and reflectors you will see a major improvement but not enuf to not go forward with the full upgrade.  In short you will be getting a jump on the project....unless you live in Michigan.

Watch for Jim's article and maybe he can shoot you a prelim so you can proof read it for him......Maybe!

John the enlightened

[rv_safetyman]

Lin, somehow I read into your comments that you were thinking about buying the cheap "look-a-like" housings that several folks are marketing now.  I suspect their optics are not all that great and could result in lots of issues for folks looking at them.

I would think that ANY housing rated for E-Code will be fine.  Certainly Hella would be a great option.  If you use a standard H4 bulb, you should be good to go. 

As was pointed out, if you use 12V bulbs, your whole system will see twice the amperage and you will need relays.  If you can find a good 12 V source, you can use 24 V relays to switch the 12 volts. 

The relays I used (Mini-ISO/Bosch type) are rated at 35 amps.  That would suggest that one would do the job.  However, if you have single headlights on each side, I would use separate relays just to be sure that you at least have one headlight if a relay should fail.  The relays are very inexpensive $5-10 each.

Jim

[JackConrad]

When we re-did our headlight system, we installed 4 bulbs that are all high/low beam, after modifying the high beam cans. We used a cube relay for the high beam and a separate cube relay for the low beam. Our entire system as change to 12 volt including larger wire size.  When 1 of the relays failed (I forget which one failed), we replaced both with continuous duty solenoids. No problems since.  We also used auto-reset circuit breakers on both high and low beam.  Jack

[Ed Hackenbruch]

The 5A's have dual, round, 5 & 3/4" headlights on each side.  

[JackConrad]

The 5A's have dual, round, 5 & 3/4" headlights on each side. 

Same on our MC-8, except we now have 4 low beam as well as 4 high beam.  Running on low beam, we have never had anyine flash their lights at us and we have the redundancy that if we loose one low beam, we still have at least 1 on eaqch side.  Jack

[Utahclaimjumper]

Many states will not allow the 4 low beam set up.>>>Dan

[JohnEd]

Jack,

You sound like you have created the "best" system.  The problem with the 5 inch rounds is that the only reflector that is worse is the their little brethren the tiny square lamps.  Those are worthless according to consultants in the field that I have spoken with.  Whatever inherent deficiencies you have by sticking with the 5's is overcome by your having 4 active lamps at play in hi or low selection.  Their is a problem with what you have done as far as I am concerned but only from the standpoint of "the ultimate".  

When I went out and spent my $50 per light, one on each side, I was driven to it and was actually desperate.  I had those spiffy GE sealed beams mounted up and from my view point all was well and I could see to drive at night.  Well, it wasn't and I couldn't.  I hit a buck that ran out in front of me and I saw the brute when he was just about to take his last step into the pavement.  No way I could even get onto the brake in time to even say I had done so prior to hitting him dead center and impaling him on all the tow crap I had on the front of that Jeep J10 "P" cup.  After the initial LOUD CARUMP I had only so far lifted my foot from the accelerator.  A really short time passed and that buck picked up his head from below my line of sight below the hood and looked me in the face.  I almost crapped and a picture of Steven King flashed before my eyes.  Hitting the brake in panic he disappeared from view and the truck did that WUMP WUMP that means he is now really really dead...whoever that might be.  He came out of nowhere but as I was about to impact him I saw a couple does standing not 15 feet from the edge of the pavement.  I could have hit the whole friggen herd.  That was a bad experience for more than one treason.....first I don't like to kill anything that doesn't desperately deserve or need it and secondly I now felt a little powerless.  Not good for men to feel that.

I was only traveling at 60 mph so over-driving my lights was not an issue or shouldn't have been.  In fact I was over-driving the lights by about 30 mph.  Whu gnu?  The 7 inch round Hellas have a distinct upswing beam on the Right that lights up stuff like deer or peds standing alongside the road and that should be a must.  The left side goes down and the oncoming gets much less light than in the defectively designed stock SAE system.  The hi-beam is just super good but again, has a component that illuminates the right side of the road but at a greater distance.  No more of those stealth deer are getting thru.

My Lex SC 400 (1993 and I maintain the brute myself and she is really my 5 foot tall librarian wifey's car) has the best system I have ever seen.  Two separate light housing/lens and both in E spec. It has a sharp cutoff low-beam projector light that has the right side illumination feature.  Appears almost to be not turned on to someone oncoming that is above the cutoff line of three feet.  Now here is the greatness....when I turn on the hi-beams I get 65 watts of driving light headed straight down the road and they really reach out there.  Superb hi-beam.  The catch is that my low beams don't ever go out if the headlights are on.  Those great hi-beams are augmented by those great low-beams that do so well at lighting up the sides of the road.  The car is governed to 144.5 mph and those lights are not adequate for that speed but they are close and I suspect that with 100 watt items like in Europe they might do for the autobahn.  It will do an Honest 140 and then I back off in spite of it feeling stable and under control. But I digress and ponder.

Were I you, I would consider leaving one light on each side locked in the low-beam position to pick up the side illumination.  Pull up close to a white bldg or door and look at your pattern and see if the right side is lacking and it might not be at all with all the lumens you are putting down the road.  I envy you that system a little.  Thank you for sharing your design.  I am sure many have pricked up their collective ears and will benefit.

Nice topic,

John

[JohnEd]

Kill joy!    I know that you are right about that but I don't know which they are or if it is enforced.

In Eugene, Orygun, I know that running with fog lights is not legal unless there is a condition that warrants their use......not enforced....thank God.  Yellow does a far better job in the rain or wet than white will ever do with any lens.

So many laws and so little time.

John ever fearful