new to the bus world

[bwze]

Well, I made my first step into the world of buses. I just purchased a '64 GM 4106. #2313....anybody got any idea of the history for this one....   

[robertglines1]

Welcome to bus nut ville. just jump in the only dumb question is the one not ask! Bob

[bwze]

Trust me, I got a lotta dumb questions......like "Why does my Detroit smoke so bad?"....and "Why won't it start?"....many more to come.....

[robertglines1]

color of smoke?  has it run lately? S.C. isn't a deep freeze.well not all the time.  lots of bus nuts in N & S Carolina. Why won't it start-No fuel   no air  (could be air damper has tripped) manual reset. it shuts off air to blower in case of a runaway:sometimes trips for no apparent reason.

[Dave5Cs]

is your air box closed? Not getting air to the motor

Dave

[RJ]

Billie -

Welcome to the madness!  Your 4106 is a great bus, one of the most under-appreciated vehicles that ever saw revenue service.

FYI, PD4106-2313 was delivered new in either March or April of 1964 as fleet number 4823 to Eastern Greyhound Lines, headquartered in Cleveland OH.  The reason I say March or April is because this was one of a 65 bus order received by EGL during those two months.  If you want more detail, then you can request a copy of the Final Vehicle Record from The Ohio Museum of Transportation.  For a $25 donation, they will send you a copy of the FVR from the official GMC microfiche.  Send your request care of Mike Ondecker.  Besides the actual delivery date, it also includes the various components installed, serial numbers of said components, a list of options, the color codes for both interior & exterior paint, etc.  Real useful trivia, actually, but worth the price.

As was typical at the time, Greyhound usually sold off their used equipment after the 10th summer of revenue service.  Thus, yours would have been released in the fall of 1964 to the used bus market.  Also during it's time with 'Hound, it was well-taken care of, because back then, Greyhound did.  Today?  Well, let's just say their maintenance dept isn't quite up to par. . .

In the meantime, you can truthfully tell folk that you own a retired Jen-u-wine Greyhound bus!

Oh, and while we're welcoming you, might we also suggest that you go into your profile and edit your signature line to also include your city & state.  Works wonders down the road for other busnuts to suggest places for service & parts, as well as who else is in your neck of the woods.

Again, welcome aboard!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[bwze]

Smoke is gray. Really smokes a good bit on startup, but then levels off a good bit after running for a while.

The starter just won't turn over. I head the bendix engaging and can feel it actuating, but the started just won't budge. I feel like the batteries are faulty, but I had them checked at the local Sam's and the guy in the automotive department said they were fine (oh, by the way, they are brand new 8d-1400 CCA's). It was giving me some trouble at the seller's home, but did start. Drove it a 125 miles back to my house and parked it on the curb to get everything prepared to pull it into my back yard and when releasing the clutch to back up and make the turn.....it shut off (didn't feather the clutch properly). Well of course, it wouldn't start again. I had my wife try to start it while it tapped on the started (old car trick) to see if it would engage.....but nada.
I got a neighbor to help me get it rolling and then I popped the clutch (honestly didn't think that would work at all) and then moved it out of the road. I still think something is fishy with the batteries, regardless of what the kid at Sam's said because my generator is connected to one of them and it has trouble turning it over.

RJ, thanks for the history on the bus. When the smoke settles (pun intended), I'll be sure to give Mike Ondecker a donation to have the original info for this jewel.


Oh yeah, and more questions to come..........upshifting, got it down pat......downshiting, well, let's just say that I need more practice.....

[Dreamscape]

Welcome!

You might check all cable grounds, sometimes they get corroded or loosen up. Remove them and clean the surface real good.

You have to have a solid system or it won't fire. Detroits have to spin pretty fast to create enough compression.

There could be other reasons, but I would start there, if the batts are as good as you say they are.

Just a thought.

Paul

[bevans6]

A battery load test is a pretty foolproof test, and you say the batteries are new.  I would suspect the starter next, after you check the cables and grounds for rock-solid connections.  The smoke is probably just a wore-out engine, sorry to say, but you should run it for a while to see what else it's doing.  If it's been sitting a long time, it might come back to you a bit and be quite usable for some time.

brian

[DMoedave]

Congratulations Billy! Definetley clean each and every one of the batteries terminals and cable ends. Inspect the cables carefully look for miss crimped ends broken or cracked eyes on the cables etc. Its a good place to start getting aqauinted with you new coach and the weather should be perfect for crawling around the engine. 4106 has that tough to reach starter area but hang tough. When we bought ours it was always a 50/50 chance she would start hitting the button. But she would after the bendix groaned back down. Try to come down to Arcadia and you will really get busfever and some great ideas.

[gm4106]

On my 4106 I found that things work alot better now because I added a ground wire from the battery box to the engine.
There is a relay in the electric compartment on the right side after the rear wheel.

[bwze]

Well, after getting covered head to toe with grease and oil , I've verified that all the big connections (battery cables) in the battery compartment are clean and tightened accordingly. After trying to chase down the relay setup that is being used to apply power to the starter solenoid (this is a huge nightmare by the way...nothing looks original) I began to inspect the starter.....bad news. Seems like the starter may indeed be bad. I used a pry bar to give it little nudge and it's loose as a goose. While gently prying back and forth I tried to start the engine with the rear switch and it sparked a few times and did once try to turn over. I started to feel around the mounting bolts and unscrewed, what I expect is the bottom of three bolts holding the starter to the engine, by hand. Luckily I've got a GM Coach Maintenance Manual (which is unexpectedly full of detail) which explains the starter removal process. One problem though....the first step says "1. Gain access to starter by removing middle access panel on engine compartment bulkhead."......where the heck is the access panel. I see no indication of an access panel even remotely close to where the starter is located. I do see what appears to be an access panel directly over the exhaust manifold on the bulkhead side of the engine, but there ain't no way you can get to that thing from there. Only way I see to get it out is by trying to man-handle it out through either the bottom or the side. I'm pretty frustrated right now, but I'm trying to keep a positive attitude. Anybody got any suggestions?

[FloridaCliff]

Billy,

On my GMC 4905, the access hole is from inside the coach in the rear.

Cliff

[FloridaCliff]

Oh Yeah,

Welcome to the Fun!   

Cliff

[bwze]

Thanks for the welcome Cliff.....

I decided to use that big old search button up there to the top left and lo and behold, Mr. Barn Owl gave a very detailed process for the removal of said ailing starter and I'm currently in the process thereof. Oh yeah, and it's real fun so far (not).....two of the three bolts out and one to go.....then I get to climb up under my new "hole in the backyard where I'll be throwing my money" to see if I can wrestle it out of there....

Oh yeah, here's the link to Barn Owl's post.....http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=4610.0