repower revisit

[Don Fairchild]

Ok let's see how many people I can totally tic off. LOL

First I would like to see every one rebuild and turbo there two-stroke engines and make them run the best they can. The problem here is not the engine in most cases but the people that work on them and the same can be said for engines in general. (Gas and Diesel) the two stroke is the most efficient engine in the world bar none. The post from ARL is about repowering and to that question the field is wide open. I think the 5.9 is too small of an engine. Yes it can make a lot of horse power but at what cost. I run a Chevy with a 6.6 drama that puts out 382 hp and 1132 ft lbs tq to the ground. At one of the rpm trade shows I let Andy Granatelli's crew put my truck on a chassis dyno. When they saw what it would do, both their crew and the banks crew called me a liar when I said I had not made any internal improvements to the engine.  To this day the engine has still not been torn down and I have over 208,000 miles on it. I have had to fix a couple of parts that have broken (two torque converters and a set of axles). I use my truck a 2003 4x4 crew cab for work, and I also pull it behind my bus. I pull trailers in excess of 18,000 lbs on a regular basis and get 14mpg doing so. I can run the grape vine at any speed I feel safe with. The last time I went down to the LA area to pick up engines I had the flat bed trailer and I picked up a 4-71T, 6-71T 4 8V71T's and an 8V92TA I bought. This thing will do what I want it to but I would not put this engine in a 40' bus.
I hear a lot of talk about the Cummins and the 50's but what about the 3176 cat. Don't you guys like cats.
Cody's question.  I have spent a lot of time in the labs with the test engineers over the last several years doing what they told us could not be done and have seen a lot of engines the manufactures are trying to put out here to work. While I can't talk about everything I see (hey I don't even understand everything I know) I will tell you my info is that what you see today is not what you will see tomorrow. Of The engines that are in the test cells now half will not make the grade and will be changed for a different product. This is the last year for the 14L 60's. Next it will be a DD15 or Mercedes whatever. As we see engines come and go and it strikes me that the two-strokes are still being made, albeit in limited quantities.

We have just be given tier II rating for the harbor craft rules and will be back in testing for the tier IV or blue sky numbers sometime next year if we can find the money. We should be listed on their web site sometime in the next week.


Don

[robertglines1]

been awhile Don..I know 2 stroke's are your business..and you can make them run! Problem is I don't know how! I still have the 89 with the 8V92 and running 70 plus it still gets 5 mpg..great running engine lots of hp and torque.  care to share some simple tips?   Bob

[uncle ned]

Don   As i remember  It was a econoline van pushing your truck.  of course my memory is like me getting old and week. Also remember that the truck had a hard time with a setra bus also.

Great trip with some nice friends.

uncle ned

[cody]

The reason I asked for Dons thoughts is because he is living and working on 2 strokes in california and making the 2 strokes meet their emissions rules, that is a feat of magic in anyones book, I also know that nobody admires the ability of the 2 stoke more than Don does, however, my question is about the long term viability of the 2 strokes in todays 'green' climate.  Will they be outlawed or will they just be allowed to retire quietly, what is happening with the port authorities that was all over the news a few months ago.  What is the gut feeling about this.  On a side note does replaced truck parts include paint? lol

[Lonnie time to go]

Don
  Afraid to ask but what about a    dt-466   any year.
I wonder because some have added horsepower and torque with good results (not in a bus).
Sorry I don't know what year of dt-466,  mechanical etc....

Lonnie

[jackhartjr]

Cody, what is happening with the ports is this...the ports want to be totally union...call them teamsters...and have so far succeeded in doing so.  They got a very liberal so called judge to rule last month that the port has the right to demand only company drivers ride around in their domain...which elimnates owner-operators!  The American Trucking Association is suing them on the grounds that that interfears in interstate commerce.  (I think I got that right.)

[cody]

Wasn't what I was asking jack, my question was about 2 strokes and the port authority, I seem to remember a few months ago there being an idea about only 4 strokes allowed or trucks of a certain age were not allowed, i can't remember but it was several months ago that I had heard it.  I'd rather not get involved in a union/non-union issue here.

[jackhartjr]

But Cody, it is all about the union here.  They first wanted to ban any truck built before 1989...then came up with the thing about employee only drivers.  An owner-operator can't join a union...therefore you eliminate them being able to work in the ports.
I was not being political here...the ports have made it political!

[luvrbus]

I have no idea about the east coast but in CA all trucks 1993 and older are banned along with most from 1994 to 2003 models owner operators are allowed they just pay a 100 fee to register the trucks for hauling from the dock almost has to be a new truck and now they want all white color trucks.
I am in Houston now doesn't look like the CA bs has reached here yet I see some older owner owned trucks hauling off the docks but Texas is a whole different country LOL

[cody]

Thats what I was asking about clifford, I had heard bits and pieces of the age of the trucks but had not heard of any resolution or compromise on it. I'm not so sure it's as much a union issue as it may be an organized crime issue, somebody is profiting big time, always follow the money.  I'm assuming that the teamsters are still mostly controled by organized crime so I'm assuming that has a lot to do with whatever is happening.

[Lin]

What about truck and engine manufacturers?  Do they stand to make money?

[jackhartjr]

Lin, I did not hear one peek out of them as this was coming down!

[robertglines1]

what do I need to do to the 8V92 other than Detroit specs to get better fuel economy? I will/ slow down to 65 mph.. Engine is fairly low mileage judged by recent bearing ck.only 1 ten thousands under new. and selves still have cross hatching on them..good running engine.  Bob  PS rite now plan on keeping it also for kids to use(89 prevost).or buy from Dad

[rv_safetyman]

Lonnie asked about the IHC DT466.  It is a member of a family of IHC engines DT360/DT466/DT530.  It is a very durable engine used in a ton of class 7 trucks.  You can see more about them here:

http://www.astleford.com/pdf/dt466dt530brochure.pdf

DD markets the DT530 as their Series 40 engine.

I converted a class 7 IHC truck into a toter home.  It had a DT466 and it was a slug.  I was always rowing the gears (5+2).  When I first got the truck someone had turned it up.  It ran pretty good but smoked badly.  When the smog cops enacted our mandatory dyno test in CO, I had to have the pump set back to stock.  Would hardly get out of its own way.  In my typical engineer fashion, I built the truck pretty stout, so it weighted probably 28K.  Details of the project are here:

http://beltguy.com/toterhome.htm

I also drove a Penske truck when I was doing some training.  It had a GVW of 25.9K (under CDL requirements).  It had an electronic version of the engine and a seven speed transmission.  It had a bit better performance, but still not great.

I looked at doing an engine swap, and about the only thing that made sense was the DT530.  However it was not available in the salvage yards at the time

The DT466 has been discussed on the boards before.  The general consensus is that it is not a good bus engine.  It has too little torque for big buses and is too heavy for small buses. 

Jim

[luvrbus]

Lonnie , one good point about the 466DT is that parts are cheap a overhaul kit is around 800 bucks and they are a true wet liner engine makes it easy to work on.Compairing the 466 to the Cummins ISB seems to be a better engine with a longer warranty for 2010 as follows with standard setting for both

466  300 hp   850 lbs of torque @ 1200rpm  set at 2400 rpm max


ISB  350 hp  650 lbs of torque at 1500 rpm   set 3000 rpm max



Larger than the ISB weight is around 300 lbs more, but the 9 and 10 L weigh the same  

The Flx folks use that engine a lot in their buses but like Jim I would go for the 530  no difference in the size and weight of the 3 engines and another good point is they come after cooled or intercooled models you gain 15 hp with intercooled model may not be worth all the piping and price of a intercooler for 15 hp fwiw they are called MaxxForce engines nowdays



good luck