Brake adjuatment turns into a starter problem

[Eagle Andy]

The way things work I decided to adjust the brakes as we have been having great weather for Oct in Montana . so I get them adjusted and have Eileen step on the peddle and I started to measure my slack lenth  and after a couple of brakes I had her start the bus to bring up air , So she turns the key pushes the button and nothin just a very little movement so i check the battries and I have 13.48 volts check the connections all tite. This had happened about a week ago while I was adjusting the head lites . So I pulled the starter and found the solenoide is bad , I did try to bump it and nothing I put new brushes in it a year ago in Aug and I fliped the disc in the solenoide. Iam wondering is ther a way to bench test the solenoide to determine if it needs replacing . Thanks for your thoughts Andy

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi Andy,

Hummm.. It seems to me that maybe your parking brake switch is possibly sticking. This will keep the start curcuit from enguaging.

It's happened to me a few times! But I just forgot to Set the parking brake and the darn engine won't start..

Always check the simple things first.

Good Luck
Nick-

[Eagle Andy]

Hey Nick would that be the same thing as a netural saftey switch ? and if so where would I look for that switch Thanks again Andy

[luvrbus]

Andy, if you have a Stone/Bennett shifter make sure you didn't accidentally knock it gear crawling around under the bus been there done that  


good luck

[bevans6]

The initial post said you got some movement out of the solenoid, and it's easy enough to check to see if it's getting a correct signal when the starter button is pushed.  To me that would take the various interlocks out of the equation, would it not?  In any case, that is what I would do first, before taking the starter out - check that the solenoid is getting the correct voltage to energize it.  You can indeed bench test a solenoid, all you need to do is energize it and see if it moves.  I can say from personal experience that they do indeed fail...   And I would not bother trying to rebuild it if a new one is obtainable,  or indeed a new starter motor complete, of a new design.

Brian

[Van]

Good point Clifford, if all (electrical) checks out,nothing grounded or shorted, could be shifter arm or clutch drive hanging up,give it a wack then bench test again. chck the simple stuff first. good luck!

[bobofthenorth]

Something else to check Andy - those solenoids take a serious number of amps to engage.  My new Delco MT39 came with a dedicated relay on the side of the starter that uses starter voltage to engage the solenoid that in turn engages the starter.  If your start circuit can't easily supply the amps that your solenoid is calling for that could give the symptoms you are describing.

[Len Silva]

Let that be a lesson to you, if you never adjust the brakes, you won't have a starter problem.

[Lin]

Thanks Len, I needed that.

[Van]

My question is, will he have to re-do the brakes after the starter is repired?

[Eagle Andy]

Well I check out the starter and all seems well I did take the solenoide abart and cleaned up the disc and reinstalled it . and tested the starter and it worked fine , Iam going to check my switch thats in the shifter unit and make sure I have good contacts there , but even with this starter working Iam going to buy a reman install it and use the old one for a back up. Thanks Guys for your help . Andy

[Eagle Andy]

Well I replaced my starter today with a reman . I installed it and tried to start it and it spun and and didn't fire , So I hit again and nothing . Now when I disconnected I noticed where the one small wire went on the solenoid and but it back were it went and I had one more wire and was coming from a relay that I thought went to the hot side of the said solenoid, were the big cable went . Iam such a idiot and didn't mark that wire. so now Iam second guessing myself and wondering if that wire should have gone to the ground side. That said wire does have a yellow connector on it like it went to the large post on the starter.
I guess I should folllow that wire and see were it goes.


Could I have a bad starter button ? I did notice when I turned the key off my volt gauge did not go to o like it use to Am I missing something . I know the mistake I made by not marking my wires so Iam kind of lost . Any help would be great thanks Andy

[bevans6]

On my starter, there are four connections that have to be made.  The big cable that is high current positive, a big cable that is high current ground, the signal lead for the solenoid that is low current switched positive, and low current ground from the second solenoid terminal down to the big ground stud on the motor.  Sounds like you need the ground wire from the second solenoid terminal to the ground stud on the motor.

Brian

[luvrbus]

Andy, your big wire should go on the battery side of the solenoid, then from there up to the rear panel, from there to the switch on the dash, a lead  from there to the starter button from the button to a relay in the rear panel, from there back to the starter connects to bottom of the starter terminal if you have 2 terminals it is the one on the right side looking from the back.That is for the standard Eagle yours may be different knowing the way Terry did things.
I forget if you have a Stone/Bennett or not but if you do it goes through the relay on the Bennett then to the solenoid. 


good luck

[Eagle Andy]

Thanks Brian I have that second wire you speak of , and I have the wire coming from the relay from the back panel that is the wire I didnot mark .

Clifford that small wire that goes on the right side leads back into the engine compartment heading to the front of the bus Iam thinking that to the starter button on the dash. Iam thinking I have it wired right after reading both post . Iam going to check omhs on the button this weekend and will trace the wire back to the panel. Thanks to you both for helping me figure this wreck out Andy