Red light camera

[Lin]

Yeah, what's wrong with having a big brother?

[Nusa]

California specific, but interesting:
http://www.kusi.com/features/turko/Throw-Em-Out-98117044.html

[RJ]

All -

Lots more about this topic here:

http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/


Some of you might even consider joining!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[JohnEd]

I was in traffic court the other day.  A guy that was given a ticket for running a red by a patrolman got a hearing.  The cop [played a video of the guy going thru the intersection.  The light is on a 45 mph blvd.  The car was more than half thru the intersection and the light for the cop turned green so the others light MUST have turned red at that instant.  Judge pointed that out to the driver and said "it is clear that you didn't make the light.  GUILTY...$250.  

These people are out of control.  I got a ticket for my dog barking in the off leash dog park.  The City ord. says that excessive barking is defined as 15 minutes of barking that can be heard from the property line.  He was barking at a woman that had just slammed a canvas purse/bag over his head and then tried to stomp him.  She was unhinged because her dog would not obey her COME command and her dog continued to interact with mine and ignore her.  He barked his displeasure at her and I did also and left.  I had my day in court and that took an hour, two cops and four old hens and we watched the film of my interview three times.  The partr of the tape where the rookie said "he said she attacked his dog and that made the dog bark.  His whitness says that and the four women agree".  He was protesting beig told to give me a ticket.  The other officer's answer"I don't care about that.  Give him the ticket."  There is also a County ord that stipulates that a dog may not bite a person unless: The dog is part of the police canine force, or the dog is a guard dog on duty protecting proiperty   OR THE DOG IS BEING TORMENTED.  As I told the judge "is it ok for him to have bitten her but he is out of line for having barked at her?  She had knocked him to the ground, had tried to stomp him before he could regain his footing and then chased after him trying to kick him and this all the while screaming at him.  He only weighs 23 pounds and a kick could be fatal."   Judge said "GUILTY....a dog barking can be very annoying and you should have had your animal under control and made him stop barking". Had that officer given me a ticket for being pregnant the judge would have found me guilty and fined me.  The police force in this town has a union and a few years ago the city mayor and board, all conservatives, entered into a contract tha is curiously binding and the cop that tasered the lone demonstrator for having sign that said "stop spraying defoliant on XXXX St. and adjacent properties."  A whitness filmed the entire event and the cop ordered him to lay on the ground....he did.....he asked why he was being arrested....cop said "shut up".....other cop proceeded to cuff the demonstrator....demonstrator again said "why are you doing this?....cop said "stand clear and shot the perp after the secnd cop stood up....hand cuffs were on and the the at was laying face down on the concrete side walk....he shocked him three very long times and the gy was screaming his head off in agony.  They then jerked hi to his feet and marched him across the street to the Police station.  While this case was being reviewed for excessive force, they awarded that 22 year old rookie OFFICER OF THE YEAR.  His next move was to enter an apartment near the University on the report that unauthorized people had entered a vacant apartment.  He entered the bedroom and demanded that a Chinese Student that spoke only very poor English, part of the exchange program for our Chinese Studies Department, "stand up and lean against the wall".  The cop then grabbed the blanket covering the Chinaman and tried toi jerk it away. Te Chinaman held fast and the cop fell to the floor of balance. Regaining his footing he shot the perp cause "I thought I saw a gun and feared for my life".  Recordings proved he never yelled GUN!, as he supposed to do to warn the other officer.  Police review found that his conduct was exemplary and without fault.  I figure if he shoots three coeds and a pregnant woman they will give that cop a gold medal the size of a man hole cover and name him COP OF THE CENTURY.  Ever see Judge Dread?

John

[it_mike]

The root of the problem IMO was the shift from keeping the peace to law enforcement. We've gone from attempting to maintain civility to micro managing everyone's daily lives.  I'm a firm believer we should have laws for criminal actions that impact others directly, not a morass of regulations.

If you run a red light on an empty street, have you really hurt anything? (Other than someone's sense of order)

[tomhamrick]

Hey JohnEd,
If you think that is bad wait until the Black Panthers become Obama's SS Troops. They already started and were set free for intimidating people at the election poles. It will only get worse!
Tom Hamrick

[cody]

Guys, can we get a little more grounded in reality here? Next you'll be claiming something about an oil spill in the gulf, we have to trust the elected officials in office, they know whats in our best interests or we wouldn't have elected them right?  As you all know we have the best government that the corporate world can buy us and we are not showing our appreciation for it in a proper way, there will always be small cells of individuals that fall outside the mainstream of corporate thought and they are being brought back into the protective fold as we speak.  Just trust relax, and enjoy the life thats provided for you at great expense I might add, I'll be back later, my meds are here now, have a good day.

[Lin]

So as not to drift to far off topic,  I do not believe that red light cameras are primarily for safety; they are for revenue.  The jurisdiction makes easy money, the provider makes easy money, and the insurance companies make easy money.  I would be very interested to see the results of a popular referendum on them.  Could such a system really be in keeping with the wishes of the majority.  Further, the court system, which is supposed to be independent, is undeniably in collusion with the executive.  It's sort of like the toll booths that merely pay for themselves-- everyone on the inside gets paid.

[Hobie]

Appears folks all over don't like 'em:


http://photoradarscam.com/protest.php

[Busted Knuckle]

Well I had an early experience with camera traffic control! Back in the 90's I borrowed a friends rollback (yes Brian some people do have friends they trust!) to go to MO and pick up a mustang I'd bought off ebay.  So while I was using his rollback on a Sunday to go get my car I "accidentally" exceeded the speed limit through an area near St. Louis.
So about a month later my friend gets a ticket in the mail with a picture of the back of his truck passing a speed limit sign, and an imposed digital speed above the limit in big bright red #'s in the middle of the picture, and the time and date @ the bottom.
The quality of the picture was very poor, and to be quite honest the license plate was not legible at all. Also all that could be seen was the back of a dirty, dingy rollback, and a wrecked mustang on the back of it! It didn't show what brand of truck it was, or even the color of the cab, let alone who was driving it.
(I'm sure they did some serious enhancement of the picture to find out who in KY owned the truck)

But when he got the ticket he did not remember loaning the truck to me. So he looked up the date on a calendar and found it was on a Sunday. Neither his junk yard or body shop were open on Sundays. Although sometimes his tow trucks did do towing on Sundays if called. So he looked up his logs showing all of that weeks wrecker calls and none of them fell on that Sunday, let alone in the St. Louis area (175 miles away).
So he had his wife call the # (to some business in Atlanta, GA) provided with the ticket and "explain that there musta been some kind of mistake!"
She was told "MAM THE PICTURES DO NOT LIE AND IF YOUR HUSBAND'S BUSINESS'S TRUCK IS THE ONE BELONGING TO THE LICENSE PLATE ON THE TRUCK IN THE PICTURE, THEN HE MUST PAY THE TICKET!"
No matter what she said made a difference to the arrogant and rude lady on the other end of the phone.

Well my buddy being a cool, calm, collective and reasonable natured man such as myself took and laid out his towing logs, the picture, the ticket, and the exact amount of cash for the fine on his desk and took a picture of it. He then put his picture in an envelope along with a letter explaining that there was no way possible it was his truck that far from home on a day that they were closed and that there were no wrecker calls! (and mailed it to the same company in Atlanta that had sent him the ticket!)

About a week later he received an envelope from a town near St. Louis where the camera was located. In it was a letter explaining that while they thought his method of paying the ticket was cute, it was not the way they did things. And that if he didn't pay the ticket they would put out a bench warrant on him, and post a "BOLO" (be on the look out) for the license plate on his truck, or any other tow trucks/vehicles bearing the name of either of his businesses (since he was gracious enough to provide them with that info in his letter), and if stopped the vehicle would be impounded and the driver arrested. Also included was a picture of his picture next to a pair of hand cuffs on a jail cell door!

I happened to be "back in town and at his body shop talking to his wife when he came in from running to the post office and several other places ranting raving and screaming about that "damn St. Louis ticket" and throwing the envelope on his wife's desk.
So while she was looking it over I asked him what it was about. He opened a drawer and pulled out the first one they had gotten and showed to me,while explaining it.
He and his wife were dumb struck when I started howling laughing and as I looked at the picture!
I just pulled the $ for the fine out of my pocket and reminded him about borrowing the rollback to go pick up the mustang on the back of it!
His wife fell out on the floor laughing with me while he was not as amused about it at first, but he was laughing about it too before long.

SO I am glad to hear that they now do a better job of showing who is actually driving as companies (& individuals DO NOT always know WHO is operating a particular vehicle at all times!)
FWIW!
 BK  

[Len Silva]

I just don't get the logic here.  Running a red light is against the law.  What is the difference between a camera catching illegal crossing of an intersection and a camera catching illegal crossing  of a border?  I presume most would support the use of the latter.

[Busted Knuckle]

I just don't get the logic here.  Running a red light is against the law.  What is the difference between a camera catching illegal crossing of an intersection and a camera catching illegal crossing  of a border?  I presume most would support the use of the latter.

Len, I paid my ticket! Even though it wasn't my neck on the line, my truck, or any proof it was me driving!
  BK 

[Len Silva]

BK,

That was not directed at you at all, we both posted at the same time.

I just don't get the objection to any tool that helps law enforcement do their job and makes the streets safer.

[eddiepotts]

I think the biggest problem I have is they use it for revenue. They do not put cameras up in my neighborhood to catch thieves,rapest,pedophiles and such. They just use them for income. Infact the last time I called the courthouse it asked if I was calling to make a theft claim and to do it on line if it was less than $5000. I am all for rules and law but at what expense. I have only seen pictures of the tickets but they do not show the teenagers crossing the street in front is why you got stopped in the intersection or a car came out of the driveway at the gas station on the corner. Where do we say enough is enough. I personally believe the young cops we have today are on a power trip. I remember growing up and the cops were out taking care of business but also teaching our kids. Remember getting caught at the park with beer? They would make you pour it out. That hurt worse than than a spanking from dad. Now you go to jail and the parents get a what? A FINE for the city. Now at 40 I have been almost taken to jail for telling a 20yr I was done taking his harassment. Give me a ticket or let me go. I don't need the threats. I owe them nothing. Anyway this thread was not about most of this. I was more questioning has anyone received a ticket in their bus with these cameras. I seen one yes and allot of readers so I am guessing it is not a common thing for buses to get them.

[JohnEd]

I think the biggest problem I have is they use it for revenue. station on the corner.

I personally believe the young cops we have today are on a power trip. I remember growing up and the cops were out taking care of business but also teaching our kids.

It is a sad state of affairs when true conservatives, like some members here, can offer sincere advice to NEVER expect that a cop is there to HELP you.  They have a whole different agenda.  I am a slow learner but I sure have come to agree with them.

Len,

The function of a red light is to stop traffic.  The purpose of a red light is to promote the safe and expeditious flow of traffic.  I don't think that there is a single person here that would not agree that we need traffic lights. And the ones we have are in the correct location.  And that we actually need more. Generally speaking, of course.  We are in agreement and that should align us with law enforcement.  Most of us resent the traffic police because the purpose has been changed to "rev. source".  That puts the police and the GENERAL public at odds so the gen public does not support cops as they used to.  And it is that relationship that has spilled over into the entire scene and made us adversaries.  For protection, the cops get support from contracts and unpopular laws passed by law makers that impersonate conservatives with "law and order" rhetoric and "bear down on crime" crap and then sponsor "mandatory mins" as a fix for their failures.  Red Light enforcement isn't all that has gone sideways on us but it is clearly visible example.  Remember the "warning ticket" that you used to get once in awhile?

Len. I am not lecturing you by any means.  Really, it isn't directed AT you.  We are of like mind on most things is my impression.  Hope that isn't insulting.

John