Changing tires with bottle jack

Ed Hackenbruch · July 03, 2010, 08:50:00 AM

Hey Will, if you are using the X12 brand of 12:1 torque multiplier and setting your torque wrench to 40 lbs. you are only getting 400 lbs. of torque not 480. It says to figure a 10:1 ratio when setting your torque wrench. I set mine for 50 lbs. so i am at 500 lbs. and well within the 450-500 lb. range required for my wheels. I would rather be a little high than a little low.

gus · July 03, 2010, 03:00:56 PM

Very interesting, there must be a 10 lb-ft gear friction loss in the multiplier.

My 58:1 multiplier doesn't mention anything like this and I would expect the loss for it would be much higher??

bevans6 · July 03, 2010, 03:50:38 PM

The 58 to 1 multiplier is a lug nut remover. Actual torque is irrelevant, as long as it's enough. People use the more traditional multipliers to install lug nuts, which I think is a *potential* mistake *if you don't recalibrate the device and your torque wrench from time to time*, since losses inside the multiplier are many and not well regulated over time as the tool ages.

Edit to say what I actually meant to say about loss of calibration and accuracy over time.

Brian

gus · July 04, 2010, 04:21:47 PM

Brian,

Good point, I think you're right. I had planned to use it to tighten but now I'll go back to my 4-way wrench and my two foot pipe.

Bill B /bus · July 04, 2010, 04:33:23 PM

Quote from: scotty_vince on July 01, 2010, 06:13:41 PM
I am 35 and have more health than wealth. But thanks for the advice I think your method is much much more appealing than mine.

I did a set of duals at age 67 to replace an air bag. All day sucker but then you're only 35 should be half a day.

Good luck
Bill

NewbeeMC9 · July 05, 2010, 06:12:11 AM

OK those tools are slicker than owl mucous, but they leave out the breaking of the bead and the and the seating of the bead

I have seen someone use an sledge hammer to break it on you tube. Any other ways?

Also lighter fluid I have seen work but can be dangerous. How else can that be done?

Hope this isn't a hyjack but along the same lines of the topic

Mrbill4108 · July 05, 2010, 06:53:37 AM

To break the bead I use the Ken Tool tire breaking wedge, (axe) P/N T11E or look at TG11E. But have also use a sledge hammer as it does not take much to break the bead.
Now to fill the tire, one of these days I'm going to invest in one of those air tanks that have a large opening to force air in fast. But for now I just stand the tire up and roll it a bit till I get the inflation started. Best way is to have the valve core removed and just use the end of the air hose (no air chuck) to start the seating of the bead once it sets fill the tire some then install the valve core without losing too much of the air and fill to proper pressure. Sounds simple but it sometime takes a bit to get the bead to seat.
Mrbill4108

JackConrad · July 05, 2010, 08:38:59 AM

Quote from: NewbeeMC9 on July 05, 2010, 06:12:11 AM

Also lighter fluid I have seen work but can be dangerous. How else can that be done is that done?

Lighter fluid? We always used starting fluid. We wanted a very rapid burn (explosion) to fill the tire with enough force to seat the bead. As you said, this method definitely is not without risk.Jack

PP · July 05, 2010, 10:49:56 AM

"Hey Will, if you are using the X12 brand of 12:1 torque multiplier and setting your torque wrench to 40 lbs. you are only getting 400 lbs. of torque not 480. It says to figure a 10:1 ratio when setting your torque wrench. I set mine for 50 lbs. so i am at 500 lbs. and well within the 450-500 lb. range required for my wheels. I would rather be a little high than a little low."

ED,
You're absolutely correct! It is the X12 and I pulled out the instructions that came with it this morning after reading your post and that is exactly what they say. Before every trip I usually check tire pressure and lugnuts and have never found a loose one, but my project today is retightening all the lugs according to the 'NEW' spec

Thanks for the heads up, Will
FWIW-I don't consider using a torque wrench on this mutiplier a 'major mistake'. It beats the he-- out of using by guess and by golly on the end of a cheater pipe (where do I place my hands on the bar to get precisely 500 foot pounds of torque at the nut?)

And what if I had a light lunch that day?

It's all good, Will

bevans6 · July 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PM

PP, I changed what I said because you're right, if the tools are reasonably accurate there is no issue. I have had two experiences with these - years ago helping a person undo the single center-lock wheel nut on a Chevron B19 that had been so overtorqued it was silly, we thought because someone on the crew didn't know the ratio the multiplier was; and my own that I got from Princess Auto that broke the first time I tried it. A for-sure user failure and a probable user-failure don't make them a bad tool, I just tossed mine and got a big impact wrench to take things off, and a 4' torque wrench to put things on. No reason I can see why your's won't do the job for you just fine. I apologize for my comment, it was off the cuff and not thought through. Just because I had a couple of bad experiences with torque multipliers doesn't mean anyone else will.

The Chevron B19 was a gorgeous sports racing car circa 1971 or so. The guy had a 4:1 multiplier, but someone brought a 12:1 or similar instead. Instead of getting 400 ft lbs, it got like 1,000 ft lbs. the threads galled or something, it took about 2,000 ft lbs to undo it, and he had to change the parts.

Cheers, Brian

PP · July 06, 2010, 07:06:54 PM

Quote from: bevans6 on July 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PM
PP, I changed what I said because you're right, if the tools are reasonably accurate there is no issue. I have had two experiences with these - years ago helping a person undo the single center-lock wheel nut on a Chevron B19 that had been so overtorqued it was silly, we thought because someone on the crew didn't know the ratio the multiplier was; and my own that I got from Princess Auto that broke the first time I tried it. A for-sure user failure and a probable user-failure don't make them a bad tool, I just tossed mine and got a big impact wrench to take things off, and a 4' torque wrench to put things on. No reason I can see why your's won't do the job for you just fine. I apologize for my comment, it was off the cuff and not thought through. Just because I had a couple of bad experiences with torque multipliers doesn't mean anyone else will.

The Chevron B19 was a gorgeous sports racing car circa 1971 or so. The guy had a 4:1 multiplier, but someone brought a 12:1 or similar instead. Instead of getting 400 ft lbs, it got like 1,000 ft lbs. the threads galled or something, it took about 2,000 ft lbs to undo it, and he had to change the parts.

Cheers, Brian

Please don't apologize Brian, we're all adults here LOL I'm not familiar with the Chevron, but I am familiar with the MGB circa 1963. LOved that little car. Take care, Will

busfan · May 02, 2018, 01:50:03 PM

Hi thinking about using the rear spring shackle / support to jack the bus up to take a tire off on the driver side is this jack point ok? Don't see why not just wanted to check, axle on the drivers side is hidden by the 45 degree driveline offset... I did notice the studs are left hand thread on the 4103 Thanks!

richard5933 · May 02, 2018, 03:17:26 PM

What make/model are you trying to lift up?

TomC · May 03, 2018, 10:09:29 AM

PLEASE-just take your bus into a professional heavy duty tire shop and have them do it. There are too many variables that can go wrong getting your bus stuck-like broken stud, stripped stud, stuck nuts, etc. Plus it is REALLY dangerous. There are many instances of "professional" tire guys being killed by bus or truck falling on them. In 40 years in the trucking industry and 25 years of owning my bus, I have never done a tire myself. Good Luck, TomC

kyle4501 · May 03, 2018, 05:17:49 PM

Quote from: TomC on May 03, 2018, 10:09:29 AM
PLEASE-just take your bus into a professional heavy duty tire shop and have them do it. There are too many variables that can go wrong getting your bus stuck-like broken stud, stripped stud, stuck nuts, etc. Plus it is REALLY dangerous. There are many instances of "professional" tire guys being killed by bus or truck falling on them. In 40 years in the trucking industry and 25 years of owning my bus, I have never done a tire myself. Good Luck, TomC

I don't believe scare tactics are necessary - I have seen "professionals" create all the problems you mentioned & then some!

The attitude of get it out the door quickly seems to supersede quality.

Even the big shops with excellent reputations employ newbies that don't seem to comprehend the concept of left hand threads on the left side of the coach.

I prefer to know the complete procedure & have the necessary tools - then it is MY choice to either wait for someone that I can properly supervise -OR- just deal with it myself & be on my way.

BTW, a few months ago, I replaced all 12 airbags & Shock absorbers. I removed all 8 tires to make access easier, and used a bottle jack to lift the coach.

Suprisingly, I managed to survive . . . .