Is this a good plan?

[richardkillmon]

Please bear with me; I say this due to the length of the pre-briefing and then the questions for the experts to answer at the end or any warning flags that they see. I'm a "Wanna-Be" bus converter and have done some research (fantasying) about how I can afford to get my dream. I have read all the "back issues" of BCM, ($$$ and time), current subscriptions to BCM, Bus Trader, and 2 RV magazines, and bought many books from the experts. I have gone to Arcadia, FL. for 4 straight years to met Jack and company at New Years Eve bus rally. I pay for a bus spot for the whole week each year even thou I don't have a bus and only visit for one day. On that day I arrive in the morning and tour any bus that will let me in (all), and leave that night late and drive home.

On a side note, there should be a warning about those people I met there and the rallies. I mean with all the products on the market that have warnings, even stupid ones like don't eat Preparation H.  I think there should be a flyer given out that states, " Warning – this is not the normal world we live in, these people are real, they are not wanted to sell you anything, they have big hearts, they care, they've honest - beware." I think it is a master plan or conspiracy you bus nuts have – convince the world to become "Bus nuts." The first time I met you all, you all were so friendly, encouraging, and knowledgeable. My 15 year son was with me that day and said, "Dad, they all know you."   This was not the case. When I left there I thought that converting a bus was simple, a lot of time and money but I had a support team that was incredible. There was not one person there who was not smiling. I can do this. These are the folks I want to hang with. I drove 6 hours home and ran into the house filled with so much energy and hope, that my wife asked my son if I had been drinking. After a few days from the herd, I calmed down and started to have withdrawal symptoms. Now after the rallies, I repeat to myself, "slow down, no bus today," and I dream again. Now back to the main issue.

I have a plan, I think. I have a simple floor plan with regulations from the boss (my best friend). I must be able to keep the living area so cold so as to be able to store meat there during the summers in south Florida and conversely wear a T-shirt in the living area while in Canada during the winter. In addition, all windows are operational, even a glass rear window. This is so while driving we can see the world. No slide outs. All electric appliances must be in the bus. The bus must have an automatic transmission and a toad the same; this is in case of an emergency (Boss doesn't want be stuck). The bus must have enough horsepower to pull the toad and not slow down on hills or should I say I must be able to maintain the speed limit on hills. Finally, this probably will be handled under insulation but no noise from engine/generator to be heard. There I got the main restrictions.

I want a 102 inch wide bus with roof a/c units for easy repair or replacement.

Now to address how or if I can do this, this way. Some of the work I can do and some I need experts to do. After I purchase a bus and strip it, can I send it to a bus company to set up the electrical system (generator) and the plumbing systems? Can I work with a company so that they do some parts of the conversion and I the others. This is almost like being a contractor but sub leasing some work.  This is to save money, small bills instead of one big one (space them out), and stress management for me. They put in all the conduit, outlet boxes, and generator and then I can do the insulation work.

From all that I read and asked, insulation is the main thing for climate control. You must do it right from the beginning because you don't get a second chance unless you rip apart the bus again. What I have learned from my limited restoration projects is do it right the first time. This means don't say this is OK for now. Do the best job on the basics and insulation is one of the basics to climate control. If you do it right the first time, you never have to redo it. And what I have learned from the experts is that a lot of bus-nuts would like to change something in the floor plan after living in their bus so I want to set up my conversion so that after a few years I can change the floor plan with ease.

I want to spray the bus with foam but before I do this I want to make sure of some things.
I want to add a half inch of wood to the cords/supports of the inside of the bus and then spray. I have heard that the support bracing will cause some heat/cold transfer from the outside. By adding the wood and then foaming, seals better. I want to make sure every inch and crack is filled with insulation. I would sacrifice space for 100% insulation. I would then take the bus to a foam company and spray it.

The engine is another area of heat and I would take the following steps to resolve this.
First of all I would improve the cooling system by either adding a radiator with more coils or air scoops added or both. I would wrap the exhaust system with insulation to prevent heat transfer into the living area. I would build an access system (trap door) from the top of the motor for easy repairs. This doorway/hatchway would be hidden by the master bed/bench seats being mounted above it. The engine compartment would be sprayed with insulation a long with the access doors.

After I cleaned the foam up I would send the bus back to the company to put in the floors and cabinets. My floor plan is very simple, bench seats all around the bus except where the bathroom and kitchen is. In the rear, the three sided bench seats would have a system of a board being placed over the isle to convert to one giant bed. The bathroom and kitchen would separate the front from the rear of the bus. The bathroom is where I would spend some extra money, full size shower and closets. The kitchen would have a regular full sized refrigerator and stove tops. There would be TVs, computers, and sound systems front and back. I want to set up systems and appliances so later I can replace or upgrade with ease.

At first the bus would be used for traveling from motel to motel but as my boss converts to be a bus-nut, we could change the insides to handle our needs.

My questions are these:

1.   Will a company do this?
2.   Is this a good plan?
3.   What problems do you see?
4.   What did I forget?
5.   Should I just have them do it all?

[Ed Hackenbruch]

Hope you have a lot of $$$$$$      Right now you can probably buy a bus close to what you want for a lot less money than what you will spend doing it yourself.  Plus there is the time factor. You can use it now instead of working on it for a year, or two, or 3, or......?   Drawback to buying one converted is that you need to have the full amount now or make payments on it.  I bought one already converted and have never regretted it a second. You will find that even then there will be little things that you want to change that will fullfill the urge to do it yourself.   Others will chime in i am sure, for one side or the other. Whatever you decide, have fun and good luck.

[HighTechRedneck]

I agree with Ed, especially right now, you can get something along the lines of what you are looking for already done for less than what you will put into it.  But I also agree that sometimes the benefit of DIY is being able to pay for it as you go.  Not to mention the satisfaction of doing it at least partially yourself.

To address your points.  You will definitely be best off outsourcing the spray foaming of the interior.  To accomplish your thermal goals, and based on what some people have reported lately on the ceramic based materials, I would suggest after completing the strip out apply a couple coats of the cermaic beaded insulating finish.  Then install your electrical conduits (be sure to run some extras for future needs)plumbing and the wood strips your referred to.  (talk to Jack Conrad about preparing for spray foaming) 

Then have it spray foamed.  Again, to achieve your goals you might look at 3 inches in the walls and 4-5 inches in the ceiling. I would also plan on 2" in the floor (that will also reduce noise) To make the most living space within those extra thick insulation parameters, I would recommend making sure to get a 102 wide bus and do a hearty roof raise (leaving enough height for the roof airs not to exceed limits).

Regarding insulating the engine compartment, I don't think I would use spray foam in there, but there is high temperature engine compartment insulation.  And on the exhaust use a wet blanket insulation available from EHP (advertiser in the magazine).  Another heat and noise insulation approach is lead insulation in the back of the bus.  I've seen several people comment on the extreme difference after installing it.  No matter what absolutely preserve the interior engine access hatches when you do the interior.

Getting an improved radiator is definitely a worthy plan if you can budget it.  I don't think it will make the engine compartment much cooler, but it will help protect one of (or the) most expensive components of your bus - the engine.

On the matter of finding a conversion company that will work with you in that manner, I don't know.  Professionals in many fields aren't to comfortable splitting the work that way.  But in these lean times, who knows?  Can't hurt asking.   Another approach would be to find one or more experienced bus nuts with some spare time.  Work out some kind of compensation (doesn't always have to be cash) for them to work side by side with you to help you do those areas you are less confident with.  That way you save a lot of money and learn a lot too.

hth

[Barn Owl]

I bought one already converted and have never regretted it a second. You will find that even then there will be little things that you want to change that will fullfill the urge to do it yourself.

Ditto

[Dave5Cs]

Yep they will still want an arm and a leg to do their part and then there is a time factor or it sits while they finish someone else's.

We bought one that was done in 1989 and needed updating. I rip out the kitchen, bath and PO had taken most out of the bedroom out. The insulation was done, airs were in and the headliner vinyl (custom) which still looks great after a good cleaning was in. Motor is in good shape, tranny etc. Electric was in and just needed cleaning up and adding some extra circuits whee needed. The plumbing is in just needed to change slowly to Pex and some new faucets and sinks.

The wife would look on C List each day and get an address of someone getting rid of descent cabinets for FREE and I would go get them. I tear them apart re make them to fit our MC 5Cs Bus and then stain and lacquer them to match pretty close. I tiled the kitchen and bath with leftover tile and grout from some of my jobs or again off the List for FREE.n

Had 2 brand new Bostrum air ride seats, but were never installed Now I installed hem but are still looking for swivels for them that are not 400.00 each and will find them or make them. Flooring had brand new wood floor in Kitchen and needs some more on raised platform at the 2 seats( 35 footer with 4 inch wheel wells covers).

Got some nice vinyl to do the dash an will build wrap around out of metal and wood then cover with vinyl.
Now we paid about 10,K for bus and about 600.00 not counting my labor in it.

We will have to put out about 1,000.00 for 2 rear tires that are bad with outside cracks starting to rot but they are probably 9 years old. The fronts are new and the PO gave us 2 new ones for the inside backs
Neighbor had just got new neutral carpeting and had a bit leftover so we got that for FREE and carpeted the bedroom.

So you see it is possible if you take your time and choose wisely and make some deals. That for me was figuring out what being a BUS NUT is all about.  Hope this helped a little.
Dave

[robertglines1]

you have met Jack Mike Cliff and others from Fla and others..and seen their coaches...you know what you want..to have it built or partially built will cost you more $ and time than finding one someone is selling to get another coach or just ready to get out of bussing..the engine to do what you want is going to be the challenge..I have a 8V92 in a 40 ft coach and it will drop 10 mile per hr on mount Eagle--the 8V71 I had dropped down to 35 mile per hr (30mph drop) also gets approx 1.8 mpg less than the 8v71...Don't know about 60 series yet as I have not made a trip yet (bus not ready)hope it is a big improvement over the 2 strokes..Good luck and hope we meet some day....Bob

[TomC]

I can tell you, to have a bus that doesn't slow down on the hills, you need at least 500hp, like a Series 60 in the back.

As to insulation, I have 2.25" insulation, and that works plenty well. I have a 40x102" with big windows and in 108 degree weather, I can keep the inside in the 70's with just two roof top A/C's running.  On the bus I ran 1x2's horizontally over the metal beams, and the insulation was sprayed over to create the 2.25". 
Spraying the insulation is a NASTY job.  I had it done on my bus 16 years ago, and a month ago by the same guy (American Foam, in Los Angeles) again.  While the foam is not as smelly, it is still a nasty, dirty, dusty job.  Do yourself a favor and have the insulation sprayed by a professional!  You're on the right track.  Good Luck, TomC

[Chopper Scott]

It is always obvious and many will point you in the same direction at this time. Buy a bus already converted but have it check out by someone familiar with busses.

[Fredward]

I bought one that had been recently converted three years ago and strongly recommend taking that approach. Even though it was converted I have been working on it ever since; changing this; repairing that. Even so, I was able to go camping the first week I owned it.
Fred