8V92 update... not good news

[Jriddle]

Rick

It is only money. If you want the extra HP and the satisfaction of doing it don't let the money get you down. You have all the time in the world with a good motor installed. You can put money in to 892 as you get it. Yet you still can go to Jellystone with the 871. I see this as a time issue more than a money issue.

My Thoughts
John

[Jerry32]

I have an 8V92TA and it has never overheated running in mountains in 100 plus weather. It is a MUI so no electronics . I just came back from yuma running 70 to 80 MPH most of the way and hardly used any oil.  Jerry

[RJ]

Rick -

As I said in my earlier post, don't let the "Tim Allen Syndrome" get the better of you and/or your wallet at this point in time.

Put this 92 project on the back burner until after your summer trip.

Go, have a good time, enjoy life, enjoy the time with the growing family, they'll be gone before you know it.

2, 5, 10 years from now, no one's going to remember how slow the bus pulled the grades, they'll remember the places they saw and the things they did.

My kids still talk about the family reunion trip we took in 1991 from Fresno to Rapid City, SD in a Dodge Caravan pulling a Coleman tent trailer!  They're both parents themselves now, and are starting to do similar things with their own families.

Avoid Eisenhower if it worries you, there are other ways over the Rockies.

Just GO!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[ojgetaway32]

Greetings to all:

I have an 82 MCI MC9 with an 8V71N and a 5 speed manual.  It was a passenger coach in its prior life.  Unbeknownst to me, the engine was in poor shape when I got it.  Focusing on salient points only, a local truck shop that I trust rebuilt the engine, to include rebuilt heads, new injectors, a new blower and all the normal overhaul stuff.  Because I've been around trucks and equipment since I was kid and am used to 425 Cats and 400+ Cummins (of course with turbos), God I wanted more power.  They were behind schedule getting it done.  When I picked it up, I drove it straight from Wheeling, WV to Niagara Falls with 20 hockey players and equipment.  The engine smoked black under heavy fuel but it ran pretty good.  I still wanted more power.  I wanted a bigger motor.  I wanted to be able to say I got a 475 horse 8V92T with Jakes and blow peoples doors off.  It's fargin annoying going up a hill slowly.  I just can't take it.  We made a few more trips in it and it's ran better every time.  We noticed better throttle response, more power and less smoking.  I wanted more power!  I just got back this Sunday night, March 7, 2010 from a trip from Wheeling to Atlanta, GA and back.  To avoid the southern WV turnpike and its hills and to avoid the hills until you get until around Mt. Airy, NC, we went to Cinci and down through Knoxville and Chatanooga.  We were running around 73 the whole way which gave us a rolling average of 63 mph according to the Garmin.  There were some hills for sure but they were longer grades and not so darn turn laden.  We never downshifted past 4th which had us topping big hills at 45.

Its still smokes black under heavy fuel.  I think we have that figured out.  The fuel rack is shot and has gobs of play/travel in it.  The parts are on the way.  I can't wait to try it out with the new parts.

Here's my analysis:  I am slowly becoming intimate with my engine.  Not that I love it, but I know what I have.  I started with a good block and the engine was rebuilt right.  It's not a GRTO that nobody knows anything about, those GRTO may last 5 mins or 5 decades.  I want piece of mind and worry free travelling.  I'm gonna keep my 8V71N for now, take good care of it and listen to it scream.  After the Atlanta trip, I am not afraid to drive the thing ANY distance.  That is a great feeling.  When I finally decide I must have more power, I am going to find another coach that came with a big horse motor from the factory.

If anybody is ever in any trouble in northern WV or eastern OH, contact me.  I will help as much as I can.

Hammer down!

Josh Miller 

[RickB]

Hey Josh and everybody else that has kept an eye on my dealings with this motor.

Well, I was never able to get the dyno test down to what I felt was a realistic price so I'm probably gonna sell the old girl down the road. I have paid my mechanic alot of money and he assures me the chances of this particular motor coming back to life are in the 2% range.

So, guys what is an 445 HP 8v92 that is setup for a truck application worth?

Keep in mind that it has a rebuilr blower, turbo, and injectors. It also has jake brakes.

It is smoking a bit and leaking out of the airbox drains at a pretty good clip. Is that what some guys would consdier a good running take out?

I have $4500 in it as it sits. My mechanic has made me an offer on it

Thanks for walking with me through this.

Rick

[ojgetaway32]

Forget my last post.  I wanna buy it!


Josh

[gumpy]

Forget my last post.  I wanna buy it!

That's gotta be the easiest sale I've seen on here.

Way to go Josh!

That's a good deal, too, with the blower, injectors, and turbo.

Hope you'll keep us all posted as you get it fitted into your bus.

[Chopper Scott]

I just got done running a return trip from Orlando with my 871. 1650 miles in 30 straight hours dragging a 16' enclosed trailer also. In fact we spent 2 hours just getting through Atlanta and rush hour traffic to boot. I sure doubt I would have saved more than 15 minutes with more hp! Granted we were not climbing the Rockies but there was a 6% grade for 4 miles between Chattanooga and Nashville. 2nd gear against the governor. No problem. I do think you really need to run what you got. You'd be surprised how many trucks and 5th wheel campers behind Power Strokes you'll be sacking. 30 years ago the truckers were wishing they could run with the Greyhounds.

[RJ]

Josh -

The more you run it, the more it's gonna break in - takes about 20K of runnin' hard to do so.

Considering the rebuild, what size injectors did your mechanic install?  Did he also "advance" the timing?

Reason I ask is because running N65 or larger injectors and "A" timing the engine does several things on an 8V71N:

~ Lotsa black smoke, especially in the lower revs under acceleration.

~ Torque peak is shifted UP the rpm scale, making it harder to get it rolling from a dead stop, especially on a slight grade.  (Not quite so much an issue with your 5-speed, killer with the 4s.)

~ More opportunity to overheat - pulling a grade and getting black smoke is a great way to fry a two-stroke.  Back off the throttle a little to eliminate the smoke.  If the bus maintains speed, you had your foot too far into it.  If the bus slows, time for a downshift.  These are NOT like the torquey 4-cycle Cats & Cummins you're used to!

Oh, for your motor's long life, make sure you're running straight 40 wt oil in it!  (Do a search on oil, lots of cuss/discussion on the topic.)


Chopper's right - on an eight or ten hour run, the extra HP will save you maybe 20 - 40 minutes, even out west.  Plus, as he said, you'll easily blow off the stick 'n staple stuff over the length of a run - you've already shown that with your Garmin's numbers.  And don't forget the increased fuel burn plus additional cooling necessary to prolong the beast's life!

On a lighter note, but still on topic, remember Aesop's Fable of the Tortoise & the Hare?

FWIW & HTH. . .

[niles500]

Chopper - You climbed Monteagle - congrats 

[HighTechRedneck]

I thought I heard something whoosh by Chattanooga.  Figured it was a fighter plane practicing radar avoidance, but it must have been Chopper! 

[RickB]

Guys,

Congrats Chopper... but if all pulls were like Monteagle I would never have bought this 8v92.

I'm not sure but I think you start the pull out of Denver higher than the top of Monteagle.

My bus ran up Monteagle towing a car

That first pull out of Denver minus the car we crawled up and I do mean crawled. Hopefully with our cooling system rebuild we won't struggle with overheating next time we try them.

Rick

[ojgetaway32]

Hey guys:

I didn't realize that hill had a name.  Monteagle?  That's the one the Bandit hit in a drivin' rain so hard he couldn't even see the passin' lane, right?

Chopper, when did you pull it?  I pulled the one between Chatanooga and Knoxville.

RJ:  My invoice says the injectors are 7E65.  No the timing was not advanced to A.  It's in their shop now getting the fule rack repaired because of all the play and few other things done.  Should I have them do it now?  What does it entail?  The black smoke claers a little but not enough.  You can walk to the back of the see a distinct black coating all over the rear of the unit. Wipe and sniff test indicates it's fuel.  The black smoke was never enough on a grade to cause me concern.  I have always paid more attention to my water temp gauge and oil temp gauge (if equipped) than anything else.  Good advice on the throttle position, I practice that already.  Yes I am running straight 40W. You seem like a wealth of info, thanks for your time.  Keep it coming!  What causes me the most concern with a engine swap or turboing a natural or something like that is the heat.  I would always be worried that I was gonna heat up and scatter the engine far from home.  You're definitley right about them not being tourqey!  LOL

Please advise on A timing if you have time.

Josh

[RickB]

Josh,

Most of what you're getting on the back of the bus may not be from your exhaust It is more than likely coming from those leaks I mentioned. Our MCI's tend to create quite a vacuum running down the road and because the leaking oil vaporizes it ends up painting the rear end of our buses. It would be hard to determine how much of it is unburned fuel from the airbox drains and how much of it is from the oil leaks. I and many others here have made airbox drain catch cans out of pvc to keep our tow vehicles and the back end of our bus as clean as possible. The black smoke you generate when under heavy load is probably not the major contributor.

Rick

[ojgetaway32]

Rick:

Airbox drain catch pans?  Please elaborate!

Josh