Newbie Introduction and Questions

Jeff Willard · February 28, 2010, 11:29:47 AM

Hi All,
I've been lurking here for a while while I've hemed and hawed about making the bus move. The time has come.

I presently have a '73 GMC 26' motorhome, which I absolutly love but..... it has a number of limitations that just can't be overcome. It looks to me like a bus is the ticket highway living Nirvana. Already owing a '73 GMC you can probably guess I'm not passive "turn the key and drive" kind of person and a requirement of mine is to never own anything where you'll see yourself at a stop light. I also worked at a DD dealership a number of years back and my last two motorcycles were both 2 strokes. I'm sure you can see a pattern.

With all of that in mind, next week I'm going to look at a PD-4501 that was converted, but needs some redo work. If it all looks good, we'll start working on selling the GMC and plan the big move up.

I do have a few queations for all of you bus experts out there...

Tires... Has anyone looked at the new Michelin wide wheel/tire combination to replace the rear duals?
Being as old as this unit is, and having stock wheels, would changing sizes and going to Aluminum wheels make sense? This was one or the best upgrades I did to the GMC. Huge difference in handling and ride, as well as available tire choices going from 16.5" to 16's. Helped the appearance too.

Water Leaking.... I haven't seen anyone really mention leaking problems on the forum here. Is it a problem with buses or not so much. It's a big problem with GMC's

Interior.... Just this morning I had the question pop into my head. How do folks get some of the larger interior pieces like Refrigerators into a bus. The doors don't look that big. Remove the rear window?
Thanks in advanvce

MattC · February 28, 2010, 12:27:37 PM

Hey, welcome!

As to the large items into the bus. I've seen the handles and doors taken off to slide a large refer into a friend's bus. I WE got my couch, bed and refer into the bus without too much ado. You'd be surprised how large an item you can get through the door when the modesty screen is down. My bus has one set of my stock windows, which will allow large items but at a height.

As to leaking, my bus was like a sieve until I replaced and re-sealed the rivets along both roof side seams and then covered the top with HyTec Bus Kote. It's much cooler now and you don't take a shower when it rains.

=)

Matt

belfert · February 28, 2010, 02:43:05 PM

Super Singles are generally only recommended for vehicles with dual drive axles. They may be costly to replace on the road as not all tire shops will have them on hand. You also can't limp anywhere if one of your Super Singles fails.

Singing Land Cruiser · February 28, 2010, 06:28:42 PM

Hi Jeff and welcome. Here is how we got our large items into our bus. http://singinglandcruiser.blogspot.com/search/label/refrigerator
All the Best, M&C

James77MCI8 · February 28, 2010, 06:35:00 PM

Welcome aboard!

jackhartjr · February 28, 2010, 07:09:32 PM

Brian, remember the PD-4501 is a tandem axle bus.
And the tires are getting more and more common, most fleets now use some.
The problem would be finding them in a stud pilot application!

Jeff, here is a link to the yahoo scenicruiser21 site, we can answer most thing cruiser there.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Scenicruiser21/

Welcome aboard, and you will find the Scenicruiser guys to be almost as cool as the eagle guys!LOL
Jack

TomC · February 28, 2010, 11:01:26 PM

Personally- if I had a Crown, Gillig, or 4501 with tandem rears, I would replace them with 455/55R-22.5 super singles (the replacement size for 11R-22.5. 445/50R-22.5 is the replacement size for 295/75R-22.5 or 275/80R-22.5). Super singles are now approved for single drive tire applications also. I would run the super singles except for the fact that my 11R-24.5's are quite a bit taller and with my big 28" diameter fuel tanks, cannot lower the truck down. Good Luck, TomC

Tom Y · March 01, 2010, 04:37:42 AM

Jeff, A local conversion shop pulls the windsheild to get big stuff in. Tom Y

luvrbus · March 01, 2010, 06:38:45 AM

Several of the guys with Eagles are using the super single with wider wheels and tires on the front and boogies and tag looks sharp. www.eaglesinternational.net Bakers Eagle for sale there has the wide on boogies and steer and super single on the rear
It has been available on Prevost for several years now I see Van Hools and MCI with the setup.
I don't know for sure but I have been told that is for hub pilot wheels only

good luck

Barn Owl · March 01, 2010, 10:08:31 AM

Unless you are planning to remove the rear glass for good I would go through the front. The front glass and gaskets seem to be an easy find and a reasonable price. Rear glass and gaskets are often made of unobtainium. That definitely applies to the 4106, not sure of the 4501.

Jeff Willard · March 03, 2010, 07:34:14 AM

Thanks for all the great information and comments. I had thought the removing the front or rear windows were the trick, but it's good to know about the rear glass being rare.

As for the tire situation. I saw someone reference hub centered vs. stud centered wheels. When I replaced the wheels on my GMC, the steel wheels were stud centered using the old tappered lug nuts. The Alcoas were hub centered with washered lug nuts. I didn't have to change anything on the coach. Is that true with this bus/truck stuff as well or is it more involved? Are bolt patterens all the same?

kyle4501 · March 03, 2010, 08:04:19 AM

On a bus or heavy truck the hub pilot wheels are not interchangeable with stud piloted wheels. The hubs on the vehicle determine what wheel you should be using.

I have a few PD4501's. In stock form, they weigh ~30,000 lbs empty. A base shell with seats & luggage racks removed weighs in at 25,000 lbs. Final weight will depend on the weight of the conversion goodies. This is fairly light loading for 10 tires, so tire choice is wide open. Personally, I prefer the look of the rear tandem duals. The super single doesn't look right, the 5 hole painted steel looks great on this bus. Also, there is something to be said for having a common tire all the way around. There is a feature in the PD4501 where you can reduce the loading of the rear axle - in an emergency, you could do that & use one of the tag axle tires as a spare for the drive or front.

As for steel wheel vs alum, the rim weight is such a small percentage of the total bus weight, I don't think you'll notice any driving difference from the rim used. The tire quality & tread style can have a huge impact.

The rear glass is 3 pieces & 5/8" thick. They are not available in reproduction anywhere. The dies to make the gasket exist, but you may have to buy a minimum production run . . .
The front curved glass is difficult at best to get & the upper windshields are even harder to find. (Pat was having them made, but the company that was making them doesn't want to any more.)

When you look at this bus, look for rust in the rear air beams & look for straight horizontal body lines & popped rivet heads.

The best thing about owning a PD4501 is the other owners are a great help. What is the serial # (PD4501 xxx) of the one you are looking at? Some one here may know some history that would be most helpful to you.
The stock side windows have hinges at the top with latches at the bottom, so they are easy to open & slide stuff in.

Please post pictures, we like bus porn!

Good luck!

kyle4501 · March 03, 2010, 08:12:18 AM

Roof leaks -
Usually from the skylight gaskets - Mastic tape will stop the leak as long as you want it to & give you plenty of time to decide on the final repair (replace gaskets - or use a polycarbonate sheet to make a new skylight panel & eliminate the rubber gasket).

Using any rtv silicone on a seam leak is a waste of time as the leak will soon return & the silicone leaves a mess to clean off. The mastic tape seals best for the lazy / fast repair. The correct repair usually involves removing rivets & replacing sealant.

TomC · March 03, 2010, 08:32:00 AM

What Kyle4501 said about the difference between steel wheels and aluminum wheels being a very small percentage of the total weight of the bus is true. What isn't said, is that with the reduction of unsuspended weight-meaning the axle weight that has to go up and down on every bump is percentage wise reduced quite a bit. Especially on the rear tandems, where the reduction of over 250lbs of weight will noticeably improve the ride quality by reducing the pounding when going over a bump. I noticed the difference in my truck when I changed the 8 wheels to aluminum on my truck, and my mechanic noticed the ride difference when I changed my bus tires/wheels from 12R-22.5 and steel wheels to 11R-24.5 and aluminum wheels. Not only do they look good-they ride alot better. Just don't kiss a curb with aluminum wheels-you'll most likely crack them. Both Alcoa and Accuride make permanent shine wheels with a treatment where you never have to polish them-but are about $150.00 extra per rim. Good Luck, TomC

Jeff Willard · March 03, 2010, 08:50:50 AM

Thanks Kyle,

5/8" think? Wow, heavy duty. The glass situation is very good to know. Better to leave it alone that risk breaking an unobtainable part.
As I've said, my experience is with the GMC Motorhome, a very different animal to be sure. The big difference switching to the Alcoa aluminum wheels wasn't weight as much as "true-ness" (Is that a word?

) and then being able to use radial tires. Originally, they used 16.5 wheels that couldn't mount a radial. So to continue the wheel conversation, does the 4501 have a hub centered or stud centered wheel design, and is it still considered "current"? I agree having a common tire makes a lot of sense however, to you mitigate that by having a more reliable and commonly available wheel tire combination? Just a thought for discussion.

Aesthetics wise, it all comes down to personal preference and the ultimate use and "Look" one is going for. If you're doing a restoration, it's a no brainer. On the otherhand, I LOVE the retro styling but, I want to use the bus as an RV, not a bus. I want to keep the "Look" but update things. Think of the 2010 Camaro. It's unmistakable as a Camaro but, it's not using "Red Stripe" tires.

Again... it's all whatever floats your boat.

I don't know the VIN yet. I will on Sunday. I've been assured it's "Rust Free" by someone that apparently knows these bus's well. It's in California and has supposedly spent it's life in the southwest. I'll post pictures next week.

In web surfing and lurking here for a while, I've definitely seen the level of people involved will all these bus's, not just the Scenicruiser crowd. I'm really looking forward to get involved and my hands dirty.