Bench Testing Webasto

dickegler · November 30, 2009, 10:47:07 AM

Hi, is there any chance to solder some wires, and mount a remote relay of some type?

Just trying to present some options

Dick Egler

bryanhes · November 30, 2009, 11:00:30 AM

Dick,

That is an option that I am going to try to avoid until I can eliminate finding one to solder inside the unit.

On another note I was talking to an owner of a passenger bus company and he stated that insurance companies made them pull all Webasto units from their coaches due to fires.

Anyone heard this. My thought would be from not keeping it cleaned and it sooted up. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bryan

PCC · November 30, 2009, 11:25:01 AM

There have been concerns about those fuel fired heaters in coaches, but primarily on coaches that are for hire, or carry passengers as a public transportation.

Remember the VW beetle that had a gas fired heater. A friend of mine, German and proud of it, bragged on his instant heat by flicking a switch, and you hear this roaring of the flame under the front 'hood'. It did give instant heat, but it was also a flame, and that, in the event of an accident, could create a volitile situation that might be of some concern.

Where you mount the unit, and where the fuel shuts off might be something to consider when thinking about the location of the unit. Piping is cheap, if you have to run another 50 feet, versus placing the unit where it could be broken away from the coach in the event of an incident.

Everything we do requires thought.

Nick Badame Refrig/ACC · November 30, 2009, 12:50:58 PM

Quote from: bryanhes on November 30, 2009, 11:00:30 AM
Dick,

That is an option that I am going to try to avoid until I can eliminate finding one to solder inside the unit.

On another note I was talking to an owner of a passenger bus company and he stated that insurance companies made them pull all Webasto units from their coaches due to fires.

Anyone heard this. My thought would be from not keeping it cleaned and it sooted up. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bryan

Hi Bryan,

I belive that most of those fires were from operators that never cleaned any greese build-up from their coaches..
Alot of webasto's are mounted in the engine compartment where greese tends to accumulate and become flamable.
If an exhaust pipe from a webasto should brake off or rott through, a fire hazzard could be possible.. as the heat from
the exhaust is well within the range to start a fire.

Nick-

bryanhes · November 30, 2009, 01:03:47 PM

Nick,

To me it seemed more of an operators failure to maintain

I know lots of things that can cause a fire if not maintained. Like your home furnace. Let it get dirty enough and there goes your house! Just a little preventative maintenance goes a long way.

Do you have any bad 12v control units lying around?

Thanks,
Bryan

stevet903 · November 30, 2009, 01:16:35 PM

Can you post a couple of pictures of the relay, and one of the bottom with the pin configuration? I'm pretty sure I have some of the single pole ones at home, (Boston, and I'm in San Diego), but they are probably made by the same people that make the double pole one. I'm trying to remember the manufacturer and where I got them.... Are there any identifying marks on the single pole ones?

bryanhes · November 30, 2009, 01:40:49 PM

Steve,

If you go back to page 2 of this post there are a couple of pictures. The one circled is the relay that is bad. It is an 8 pin, double pole single throw.

There is nothing on the relays only B429 printed on the PCB next to one of the single pole relays.

If you need a better picture of the pin locations I will post one when I get home from work.

Thanks,
Bryan

Nick Badame Refrig/ACC · November 30, 2009, 03:11:13 PM

Quote from: bryanhes on November 30, 2009, 01:03:47 PM
Nick,

Do you have any bad 12v control units lying around?

Thanks,
Bryan

Sorry man... I have nothing in 12v right now. I do have a couple bad 24v modules. I wonder??....
I doubt it!
Nick-

Busted Knuckle · November 30, 2009, 03:31:56 PM

Bryan the relay is probably a "Bosch" or a "Cibie" (or something like that!

)
Webasto is/was a German product originally.
Those 2 and one other name I can't recall (or find any of laying around) are the "common" relays of choice in most German products I have dealt with.
And I am a Setra fan, so I do deal with plenty of "German products"

Also FWIW our insurance company has never once mentioned removing the Wabasto units from our buses!

Also FWIW Setra now puts the Webasto in the center of the bus in the rear luggage bay on the driver side in what they call an "energy system!" (shoot if ya gonna burn the bus, might as well start it in the middle where is can spread both ways!

)

BK

bryanhes · November 30, 2009, 04:43:51 PM

The only problem I am having is trying to figure out the brand as there are no markings. Here are pictures of the relay itself.

I talked to Kraft Tours and they run them in their busses as well. I am not worried about it in my bus as I am very particular on maintenance.

Thanks,
Bryan

bryanhes · November 30, 2009, 06:42:45 PM

Here are a few more pictures of the relay and PCB showing pin locations. I guess I have to post several to get all the pics on here.

Bryan

bryanhes · November 30, 2009, 06:44:28 PM

And the last two to show the size. The relay is about 1" x 3/4".

If all else fails I have located an external relay I believe I can use for about $16.00

Thanks again,
Bryan

stevet903 · December 01, 2009, 08:41:41 AM

I've done a ton of searching, and I'm going to admit I'm stumped on this one, the relay appears to be a double pole single throw relay from the picture. The pin-out on the board does not match anything I can find. So, a couple more questions - Is there a manufacturer/model number on the board or the case (maybe Hella?) Are there markings on the other relays - It doesn't look like it from the picture.

Here's a link to a guy that has a bunch of oddball relays, you could try giving him a call:

http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/relays.htm

There seems to be some Webasto stuff on Ebay in Germany and England for subtantially less money than the US

If you are not in a huge hurry I'll look at the relays I have at home when I get there at Christmas, maybe I can get a supplier at that point...

Nick Badame Refrig/ACC · December 01, 2009, 08:47:44 AM

Hi Bryan,

Here is a thought until you find either another relay or a control box.. I'm no electronic curcuit board junkie but,

why not just jump it out for now.. That relay brings on the blower so, maybe just control the unit with your t-stat or switch.?

Anybody else know if this will work?

Nick-

bryanhes · December 01, 2009, 09:40:18 AM

Steve,
Yes it is a double pole single throw. The control unit does have Hella on the aluminum case. No markings on other relays either. I guess that is why Webasto gets $500.00 for them, they are top secret

Crap!!

Nick,

I can solder leads and run them to the outside of the box to an external relay. I think that would work. I am not in a huge rush but would like to get it bench tested at least and start planning my install a little more.

Thanks,
Bryan